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“ No more societal and political discussions on our company Basecamp account. “ They banned it in all channels, and told their employees to chat on Signal: “

“ No more societal and political discussions on our company Basecamp account. “ They banned it in all channels, and told their employees to chat on Signal: “ People can take the conversations with willing co-workers to Signal, Whatsapp, or even a personal Basecamp account, but it can't happen where the work happens anymore.” So - it’s not like what you asserted, at all. What you asserted is somewhat reasonable (even if I would want to nitpick at the edge cases) ... but they’re not saying anything close to what you’re saying.

imgabe 5y ago
They also didn't ban "chitchat". They banned harassing people about politics, which is entirely reasonable.
- drewbug01 5y ago
  The banned talking about politics, and my entire point is that my participation in idle chit-chat, when it indirectly confirms my sexuality, is coded as political and thus off-limits. And that this tends to get weaponized against disadvantaged groups.
  - imgabe 5y ago
    I don't doubt that there are people who will try to claim that any mention of a same-sex relationship is political. Based on everything Jason and DHH have ever said or done, do you think that their intent with this policy is to forbid people from mentioning their same sex partners? Do you believe that they would take seriously any complaint in that regard? There is definitely a spectrum of behavior contained in "political discussions". Do think there's not any part of that spectrum that should be discouraged at work? I think they made it pretty clear what area of the spectrum of behavior they're targeting and it's not "casual mentions of same-sex partners".
    - drewbug01 5y ago
      Actually and honestly: I do not know whether or not Jason and DHH would personally do that. I would caution that you never really know what biases people hold simply from reading their Twitter. That said, I would be surprised if they took a complaint like this seriously. But what I’m saying is that people used to take this particular complaint seriously within the past 10 years; and that this complaint is easily generalized to a lot of other complaints that feel very relevant. And moreover the even bigger point is now I have to worry because this has happened to me. Why wouldn’t I be worried it would happen again? (And this policy is creeping in at multiple workplaces: Coinbase, Basecamp, and at least one other place I’m not at liberty to actually say - and the trend is very concerning).
      - imgabe 5y ago
        I agree that you shouldn't have to worry about that. I think people also shouldn't have to worry about losing their job or being pushed aside if they just want to do work and not kneel down with people, or raise their fists, or recite loyalty oaths to certain causes. Some people just want to come to work and do work and go home, and that should be allowed too. I hope we can find a compromise where neither person needs to worry. I think that is what Basecamp is making an honest attempt at here.
        drewbug01 5y ago
        If that’s the goal you want, I hope we agree then that this kind of policy isn’t a good way to achieve it because of the really large potential for collateral damage. Like sure - you can kill an ant with a hand grenade, but is that the best tool for the job?
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      I have no idea who Jason and DHH are beyond this announcement, so I have no idea which political discussions they intend to prohibit in practice. But clearly there have been some political discussions there that they intend to prohibit now, so it’s not crazy to give same-sex marriage as an example of a prominent divisive highly-charged political topic in the United States. What’s a better example that you think these two people would intend to prohibit?

imgabe 5y ago

They also didn't ban "chitchat". They banned harassing people about politics, which is entirely reasonable.

drewbug01 5y ago
The banned talking about politics, and my entire point is that my participation in idle chit-chat, when it indirectly confirms my sexuality, is coded as political and thus off-limits. And that this tends to get weaponized against disadvantaged groups.
- imgabe 5y ago
  I don't doubt that there are people who will try to claim that any mention of a same-sex relationship is political. Based on everything Jason and DHH have ever said or done, do you think that their intent with this policy is to forbid people from mentioning their same sex partners? Do you believe that they would take seriously any complaint in that regard? There is definitely a spectrum of behavior contained in "political discussions". Do think there's not any part of that spectrum that should be discouraged at work? I think they made it pretty clear what area of the spectrum of behavior they're targeting and it's not "casual mentions of same-sex partners".
  - drewbug01 5y ago
    Actually and honestly: I do not know whether or not Jason and DHH would personally do that. I would caution that you never really know what biases people hold simply from reading their Twitter. That said, I would be surprised if they took a complaint like this seriously. But what I’m saying is that people used to take this particular complaint seriously within the past 10 years; and that this complaint is easily generalized to a lot of other complaints that feel very relevant. And moreover the even bigger point is now I have to worry because this has happened to me. Why wouldn’t I be worried it would happen again? (And this policy is creeping in at multiple workplaces: Coinbase, Basecamp, and at least one other place I’m not at liberty to actually say - and the trend is very concerning).
    - imgabe 5y ago
      I agree that you shouldn't have to worry about that. I think people also shouldn't have to worry about losing their job or being pushed aside if they just want to do work and not kneel down with people, or raise their fists, or recite loyalty oaths to certain causes. Some people just want to come to work and do work and go home, and that should be allowed too. I hope we can find a compromise where neither person needs to worry. I think that is what Basecamp is making an honest attempt at here.
      - drewbug01 5y ago
        If that’s the goal you want, I hope we agree then that this kind of policy isn’t a good way to achieve it because of the really large potential for collateral damage. Like sure - you can kill an ant with a hand grenade, but is that the best tool for the job?
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    I have no idea who Jason and DHH are beyond this announcement, so I have no idea which political discussions they intend to prohibit in practice. But clearly there have been some political discussions there that they intend to prohibit now, so it’s not crazy to give same-sex marriage as an example of a prominent divisive highly-charged political topic in the United States. What’s a better example that you think these two people would intend to prohibit?