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This is a more bizarre response. You literally take the worst interpretation out of everything, and calling it accurate would be very generous. >You were caugh

This is a more bizarre response. You literally take the worst interpretation out of everything, and calling it accurate would be very generous. >You were caught putting deceptive language in your contracts. I'm curious if there's a way you can mess up language in a contract that isn't deceptive/misleading? >You're on probation. This is nothing to be excited about This is standard procedure, but you're clearly painting it as if they've been knocked down another peg. >The BPPE does not endorse schools. They simply said you were no longer operating illegally. And this is blatantly false and makes me further question everything else you've stated. https://www.bppe.ca.gov/schools/approved_schools.shtml https://www.bppe.ca.gov/schools/approved_schools.shtml Try the search function.

sandofsky 5y ago
> I'm curious if there's a way you can mess up language in a contract that isn't deceptive/misleading? According to the linked document, this was not a typo. This line contradicts reality: "this extension of credit is a qualified educational loan and is subject to the limitations on dischargeability in bankruptcy contained in Section 523(a)(8) of the United States Bankruptcy Code." In addition, the document points out, "Certain Lambda School marketing has included representations implying its program is “free.”" It is not free. > This is standard procedure, but you're clearly painting it as if they've been knocked down another peg. The parent post made it sound like they were out of the woods, when they clearly aren't. If I were the subject of this press release, I would not be "excited." > And this is blatantly false and makes me further question everything else you've stated. I did not say they were still operating illegally. I said that they used the word endorsement, when the state had simply approved them. The two words mean different things. > Try the search function. I searched for the word "endorse" on that page, and found zero matches.
- LMYahooTFY 5y ago
  >According to the linked document, this was not a typo. This line contradicts reality: "this extension of credit is a qualified educational loan and is subject to the limitations on dischargeability in bankruptcy contained in Section 523(a)(8) of the United States Bankruptcy Code." This in no way answered my question. >In addition, the document points out, "Certain Lambda School marketing has included representations implying its program is “free.”" It is not free. Interesting and not related to the contract, we're talking about marketing. I find your comments extremely disingenuous, you're switching contexts of "misleading" in the very separate domains of marketing and legal contracts which should be too obvious. The order is non-specific, so what do you want to get into? "Free until you get a job" comes to mind, is that misleading? I'll argue it's true, given that you don't pay them money when you don't have a job. >The parent post made it sound like they were out of the woods, when they clearly aren't. If I were the subject of this press release, I would not be "excited." It's certainly a step forward in my opinion, and you seem to take issue with the fact that it wasn't a flawless approval. Fair enough, your opinion is noted. >Approval is very different than endorsement. This seems like doubling down on a total misrepresentation. Austen clearly said approval, then elaborated to claim it was an endorsement of their relatively unique education model. You don't need to be that generous to imagine that 'approval' by a body (which only approves or does not) of a new/innovative model is something of an endorsement of this new model. You picked out endorsement, and responded as if he had said "BPPE endorsed our program". It's clearly not what he said. Austen even appears to have removed the egregious line, which I imagine makes sense from a PR standpoint as people will try to misrepresent it as you have.
  - sandofsky 5y ago
    > This in no way answered my question. I can't believe I have to make this explicit, but ok. > I'm curious if there's a way you can mess up language in a contract that isn't deceptive/misleading? Reading the contract, a student will think that they can't discharge the debt through bankruptcy. In reality, yes, they can discharge the debt through bankruptcy. It's right there in the order: "The Bankruptcy Non-Dischargeability Provision is misleading because, contrary to the Dischargeability Provision, the Contract is not a “qualified educational loan,” as defined in section 221, subdivision (d)(1), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, and is not subject to the limitations on dischargeability pursuant to section 523, subdivision (a)(8), of the United States Bankruptcy Code." A 'mess up' would be misuse of an Oxford comma. You don't 'mess up' dropping a very specific reference to a very specific legal code that does not apply. > Interesting and not related to the contract, we're talking about marketing. I find your comments extremely disingenuous, you're switching contexts of "misleading" in the very separate domains of marketing and legal contracts which should be too obvious. The order cites their deceptive marketing. Presumably that's why they were ordered to review all of their previous marketing. > The order is non-specific, so what do you want to get into? I copied and pasted directly from the order. > You picked out endorsement, and responded as if he had said "BPPE endorsed our program". It's clearly not what he said. I copied and pasted from his own post. Since we can't reach common ground on basic facts, I see no reason to engage with you any further.
    - LMYahooTFY 5y ago
      > Since we can't reach common ground on basic facts, I see no reason to engage with you any further. I'm sorry, do you feel I'm not being generous in my interpretation? I certainly feel you're not, is that not a guideline here? >I can't believe I have to make this explicit, but ok. You don't have to, you misunderstood me. If a contract is flawed, is there a result other than 'misleading'? Do we expect all contracts to be flawless 100% of the time? Are all of the flaws deliberate? > You were caught putting deceptive language in your contracts. So I'll try to be generous, I read this as you accusing him of deliberately misleading people. You assert that this cannot be a 'mess up'. Am I wrong? > I copied and pasted directly from the order. I'm asking if there's marketing material you'd like to point out and discuss. I quoted some, do you not want to engage on that? >I copied and pasted from his own post. Which I explained, he explicitly stated approval, and then at worst, embellished upon it. Is there no overlap between "approval" and "endorsement" that ever warrants the statement he made? > Since we can't reach common ground on basic facts, I see no reason to engage with you any further. You're extremely adversarial, yet I'm unsurprised you want to withdraw.

sandofsky 5y ago

> I'm curious if there's a way you can mess up language in a contract that isn't deceptive/misleading? According to the linked document, this was not a typo. This line contradicts reality: "this extension of credit is a qualified educational loan and is subject to the limitations on dischargeability in bankruptcy contained in Section 523(a)(8) of the United States Bankruptcy Code." In addition, the document points out, "Certain Lambda School marketing has included representations implying its program is “free.”" It is not free. > This is standard procedure, but you're clearly painting it as if they've been knocked down another peg. The parent post made it sound like they were out of the woods, when they clearly aren't. If I were the subject of this press release, I would not be "excited." > And this is blatantly false and makes me further question everything else you've stated. I did not say they were still operating illegally. I said that they used the word endorsement, when the state had simply approved them. The two words mean different things. > Try the search function. I searched for the word "endorse" on that page, and found zero matches.

LMYahooTFY 5y ago
>According to the linked document, this was not a typo. This line contradicts reality: "this extension of credit is a qualified educational loan and is subject to the limitations on dischargeability in bankruptcy contained in Section 523(a)(8) of the United States Bankruptcy Code." This in no way answered my question. >In addition, the document points out, "Certain Lambda School marketing has included representations implying its program is “free.”" It is not free. Interesting and not related to the contract, we're talking about marketing. I find your comments extremely disingenuous, you're switching contexts of "misleading" in the very separate domains of marketing and legal contracts which should be too obvious. The order is non-specific, so what do you want to get into? "Free until you get a job" comes to mind, is that misleading? I'll argue it's true, given that you don't pay them money when you don't have a job. >The parent post made it sound like they were out of the woods, when they clearly aren't. If I were the subject of this press release, I would not be "excited." It's certainly a step forward in my opinion, and you seem to take issue with the fact that it wasn't a flawless approval. Fair enough, your opinion is noted. >Approval is very different than endorsement. This seems like doubling down on a total misrepresentation. Austen clearly said approval, then elaborated to claim it was an endorsement of their relatively unique education model. You don't need to be that generous to imagine that 'approval' by a body (which only approves or does not) of a new/innovative model is something of an endorsement of this new model. You picked out endorsement, and responded as if he had said "BPPE endorsed our program". It's clearly not what he said. Austen even appears to have removed the egregious line, which I imagine makes sense from a PR standpoint as people will try to misrepresent it as you have.
- sandofsky 5y ago
  > This in no way answered my question. I can't believe I have to make this explicit, but ok. > I'm curious if there's a way you can mess up language in a contract that isn't deceptive/misleading? Reading the contract, a student will think that they can't discharge the debt through bankruptcy. In reality, yes, they can discharge the debt through bankruptcy. It's right there in the order: "The Bankruptcy Non-Dischargeability Provision is misleading because, contrary to the Dischargeability Provision, the Contract is not a “qualified educational loan,” as defined in section 221, subdivision (d)(1), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, and is not subject to the limitations on dischargeability pursuant to section 523, subdivision (a)(8), of the United States Bankruptcy Code." A 'mess up' would be misuse of an Oxford comma. You don't 'mess up' dropping a very specific reference to a very specific legal code that does not apply. > Interesting and not related to the contract, we're talking about marketing. I find your comments extremely disingenuous, you're switching contexts of "misleading" in the very separate domains of marketing and legal contracts which should be too obvious. The order cites their deceptive marketing. Presumably that's why they were ordered to review all of their previous marketing. > The order is non-specific, so what do you want to get into? I copied and pasted directly from the order. > You picked out endorsement, and responded as if he had said "BPPE endorsed our program". It's clearly not what he said. I copied and pasted from his own post. Since we can't reach common ground on basic facts, I see no reason to engage with you any further.
  - LMYahooTFY 5y ago
    > Since we can't reach common ground on basic facts, I see no reason to engage with you any further. I'm sorry, do you feel I'm not being generous in my interpretation? I certainly feel you're not, is that not a guideline here? >I can't believe I have to make this explicit, but ok. You don't have to, you misunderstood me. If a contract is flawed, is there a result other than 'misleading'? Do we expect all contracts to be flawless 100% of the time? Are all of the flaws deliberate? > You were caught putting deceptive language in your contracts. So I'll try to be generous, I read this as you accusing him of deliberately misleading people. You assert that this cannot be a 'mess up'. Am I wrong? > I copied and pasted directly from the order. I'm asking if there's marketing material you'd like to point out and discuss. I quoted some, do you not want to engage on that? >I copied and pasted from his own post. Which I explained, he explicitly stated approval, and then at worst, embellished upon it. Is there no overlap between "approval" and "endorsement" that ever warrants the statement he made? > Since we can't reach common ground on basic facts, I see no reason to engage with you any further. You're extremely adversarial, yet I'm unsurprised you want to withdraw.