5 ms·

What if you want to discuss gay spousal benefits? Or how medical insurance is going to work for gay couples?

anm89 6y ago
Then read your contract. Discussing these things does not change what the contract you signed says. If you don't like it, renegotiate or leave. If your negotiation is an ultimatum on these points you should probably consider it equivalent to deciding to leave in most cases, but maybe if you have enough leverage you will win.
- katbyte 6y ago
  except if your co-workers never know they they never have a chance to stand up for you and demand change. this is a great way to silence minorities because talking about the challenges they face is now forbidden.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  One might also consider forming a union with your fellow coworkers, and negotiating with management with said union. As you mentioned, if you have enough leverage, you win. If that's your jam, grab for the crowbar of labor rights. Organizing is federally protected.
  - anm89 6y ago
    Sure it's your legal right to form a union, go for it if you want. More power to you if you win. Fortunately workers in tech are almost unanimously smart enough to understand this isn't in their interest and reject unions. Also understand you are playing power politics so if you are going to play make sure you can win. These people at instacart didn't: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/21/22242676/instacart-firing-every-union-employee-coronavirus-pandemic https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/21/22242676/instacart-firing...
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      > Fortunately workers in tech are almost unanimously smart enough to understand this isn't in their interest and reject unions https://www.npr.org/2021/01/08/954710407/at-google-hundreds-of-workers-formed-a-labor-union-why-to-protect-ourselves https://www.npr.org/2021/01/08/954710407/at-google-hundreds-... ("Google Workers Speak Out About Why They Formed A Union: 'To Protect Ourselves'") https://www.wired.com/story/how-kickstarter-employees-formed-union/ https://www.wired.com/story/how-kickstarter-employees-formed... ("How Kickstarter Employees Formed a Union") https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/02/following-unionization-glitch-signs-collective-bargaining-agreement/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/02/following-unionization-gli... ("Following unionization, Glitch signs collective bargaining agreement ") I admit there's still much work to be done with regards to tech organizing.
      - anm89 6y ago
        Yeah. That's the whole list... Want to compile the 1000 page document that would be all the places who haven't unionized?
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        That's unnecessary. I'm simply demonstrating that unionization has occurred in businesses far larger and with arguably more difficult organizing environments than Basecamp (with a total of ~60 employees). 800 Google workers thought it important enough to join their union.
        sokoloff 6y ago
        800 out of 135000 is 6 tenths of 1%. A Basecamp union organizer who was the only one to decide to join their own creation of a Basecamp Workers Union would already be 3 times as successful as the Google union on a per-capita basis.
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        I can only chuckle at the raw math, as if that’s the valuable datapoint. It seems impossible until it’s done. It took decades for America to ruin the idea of unions, they’re not coming back overnight.

Then read your contract. Discussing these things does not change what the contract you signed says. If you don't like it, renegotiate or leave. If your negotiation is an ultimatum on these points you should probably consider it equivalent to deciding to leave in most cases, but maybe if you have enough leverage you will win.

katbyte 6y ago
except if your co-workers never know they they never have a chance to stand up for you and demand change. this is a great way to silence minorities because talking about the challenges they face is now forbidden.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
One might also consider forming a union with your fellow coworkers, and negotiating with management with said union. As you mentioned, if you have enough leverage, you win. If that's your jam, grab for the crowbar of labor rights. Organizing is federally protected.
- anm89 6y ago
  Sure it's your legal right to form a union, go for it if you want. More power to you if you win. Fortunately workers in tech are almost unanimously smart enough to understand this isn't in their interest and reject unions. Also understand you are playing power politics so if you are going to play make sure you can win. These people at instacart didn't: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/21/22242676/instacart-firing-every-union-employee-coronavirus-pandemic https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/21/22242676/instacart-firing...
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    > Fortunately workers in tech are almost unanimously smart enough to understand this isn't in their interest and reject unions https://www.npr.org/2021/01/08/954710407/at-google-hundreds-of-workers-formed-a-labor-union-why-to-protect-ourselves https://www.npr.org/2021/01/08/954710407/at-google-hundreds-... ("Google Workers Speak Out About Why They Formed A Union: 'To Protect Ourselves'") https://www.wired.com/story/how-kickstarter-employees-formed-union/ https://www.wired.com/story/how-kickstarter-employees-formed... ("How Kickstarter Employees Formed a Union") https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/02/following-unionization-glitch-signs-collective-bargaining-agreement/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/02/following-unionization-gli... ("Following unionization, Glitch signs collective bargaining agreement ") I admit there's still much work to be done with regards to tech organizing.
    - anm89 6y ago
      Yeah. That's the whole list... Want to compile the 1000 page document that would be all the places who haven't unionized?
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        That's unnecessary. I'm simply demonstrating that unionization has occurred in businesses far larger and with arguably more difficult organizing environments than Basecamp (with a total of ~60 employees). 800 Google workers thought it important enough to join their union.
        sokoloff 6y ago
        800 out of 135000 is 6 tenths of 1%. A Basecamp union organizer who was the only one to decide to join their own creation of a Basecamp Workers Union would already be 3 times as successful as the Google union on a per-capita basis.
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        I can only chuckle at the raw math, as if that’s the valuable datapoint. It seems impossible until it’s done. It took decades for America to ruin the idea of unions, they’re not coming back overnight.