4 ms·

or use vim

by elb0w 15y ago

or use vim

wisty 15y ago
Vim doesn't compile as you type, so it can't give you much intelligent interaction with your code. Obviously, there are work-arounds (like using clean APIs and libraries), but that's not always an option.
- dsl 15y ago
  Good programmers don't need this.
  - innes 15y ago
    Good programmers don't need this, like good sprinters don't need bicycles.
    - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
      Ah yes, the classic "if you haven't memorized all of the APIs and their side effects you're not a real developer" schtick.
  - nih 15y ago
    Good programmers code in hex.
  - wisty 15y ago
    It depends on the stack you are working with. Need to work with a big, unfamiliar, badly documented API? Good programmers don't want to be in that kind of situation, but it happens.
    - primitur 15y ago
      For me, cscope+vim+ddd has all the editing/building/debugging power I need .. I think with this combination of tools I can match the prowess of any fat IDE for any degree of 'cruddy project' > 'power codebase' ..
  - jpitz 15y ago
    I'll disagree, and assert that this is the logical conclusion of your statement: http://xkcd.com/378/ http://xkcd.com/378/
- primitur 15y ago
  >intelligent interaction with your code. I use cscope for intelligent interaction with my code, vim as the primary editor/interface (keybindings for cscope are awesome..) and ddd in an 'always on top' window for building/debugging .. in comparison to my Eclipse (android) environment where I am also working, I think that an easy balance can be made if you use the 'apps as pipes' philosophy that a good vim experience requires ..
devinfoley 15y ago
I use vim for everything but Java. When it's Java time, I use Eclipse. In fact, if every language worked as well in Eclipse as Java does, I'd probably use Eclipse for everything (like I used to). The productivity gains you get from using Eclipse for Java vs a text editor (vim) are HUGE. This is not a fault of vim, it's a fault of Java for being so verbose. Example: you can move a method to a new class in Java, and Eclipse will go through your entire project and find all references to that method and update them for you. I guess it's the same reason C# and MS coders love Visual Studio so much. That said, I try to avoid using Java, and generally stick to vim.
- chillax 15y ago
  But wouldn't you apply some of those refactorings in other languages too? Movings methods, refactoring out inner classes, removing/adding parameters to methods and constructors etc. It all adds up if the language has good support in your IDE. I'm not a power user of vim, but perhaps there are some kind of extensions for some of these things there?
  - babebridou 15y ago
    I wish there was be something, actually, that would match what you can do with the Eclipse/Java combo for other languages. Eclipse turns java into a ctrl-space fest. People yell at java for being verbose and statically typed, but all this verbosity is what allows an IDE such as Eclipse to exist. Just press ctrl+space and the verbosity turns into clarity and speed for both the programmer and the IDE. I have more than a million lines of codes behind me since I learned how to program, 4 years ago. That's 250 thousand lines of working code per year, and I didn't even code more than half-time in java, and I can't type faster than 40wpm. I'm not advocating quantity vs quality, just saying that quantity becomes a completely irrelevant measure when you use Eclipse & Java, and that's very refreshing; you can keep coding long, dumb, and not performance-critical code while you think about another more important/complex section of your project, participate to a meeting, discuss stuff on the phone - you just set sail and let Eclipse do the hard rowing for you. As for refactoring - delete a class named MyClass with a doStuff() method in a project, create a new interface MyClass with a doStuff() method in another project and another package, add this project as a dependency to the first project, select the first project, press ctrl+shift+O, et voila, every file was fixed, and it simply works within a few seconds even if there are a thousand sources referencing that MyClass. I'm not sure if there's any language/IDE that allows that sort of fast & furious refactor, but do tell! What are other great IDE/language combos?

or use vim

by elb0w 15y ago

or use vim

wisty 15y ago

Vim doesn't compile as you type, so it can't give you much intelligent interaction with your code. Obviously, there are work-arounds (like using clean APIs and libraries), but that's not always an option.

dsl 15y ago
Good programmers don't need this.
- innes 15y ago
  Good programmers don't need this, like good sprinters don't need bicycles.
  - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
    Ah yes, the classic "if you haven't memorized all of the APIs and their side effects you're not a real developer" schtick.
- nih 15y ago
  Good programmers code in hex.
- wisty 15y ago
  It depends on the stack you are working with. Need to work with a big, unfamiliar, badly documented API? Good programmers don't want to be in that kind of situation, but it happens.
  - primitur 15y ago
    For me, cscope+vim+ddd has all the editing/building/debugging power I need .. I think with this combination of tools I can match the prowess of any fat IDE for any degree of 'cruddy project' > 'power codebase' ..
- jpitz 15y ago
  I'll disagree, and assert that this is the logical conclusion of your statement: http://xkcd.com/378/ http://xkcd.com/378/
primitur 15y ago
>intelligent interaction with your code. I use cscope for intelligent interaction with my code, vim as the primary editor/interface (keybindings for cscope are awesome..) and ddd in an 'always on top' window for building/debugging .. in comparison to my Eclipse (android) environment where I am also working, I think that an easy balance can be made if you use the 'apps as pipes' philosophy that a good vim experience requires ..

devinfoley 15y ago

I use vim for everything but Java. When it's Java time, I use Eclipse. In fact, if every language worked as well in Eclipse as Java does, I'd probably use Eclipse for everything (like I used to). The productivity gains you get from using Eclipse for Java vs a text editor (vim) are HUGE. This is not a fault of vim, it's a fault of Java for being so verbose. Example: you can move a method to a new class in Java, and Eclipse will go through your entire project and find all references to that method and update them for you. I guess it's the same reason C# and MS coders love Visual Studio so much. That said, I try to avoid using Java, and generally stick to vim.

chillax 15y ago
But wouldn't you apply some of those refactorings in other languages too? Movings methods, refactoring out inner classes, removing/adding parameters to methods and constructors etc. It all adds up if the language has good support in your IDE. I'm not a power user of vim, but perhaps there are some kind of extensions for some of these things there?
- babebridou 15y ago
  I wish there was be something, actually, that would match what you can do with the Eclipse/Java combo for other languages. Eclipse turns java into a ctrl-space fest. People yell at java for being verbose and statically typed, but all this verbosity is what allows an IDE such as Eclipse to exist. Just press ctrl+space and the verbosity turns into clarity and speed for both the programmer and the IDE. I have more than a million lines of codes behind me since I learned how to program, 4 years ago. That's 250 thousand lines of working code per year, and I didn't even code more than half-time in java, and I can't type faster than 40wpm. I'm not advocating quantity vs quality, just saying that quantity becomes a completely irrelevant measure when you use Eclipse & Java, and that's very refreshing; you can keep coding long, dumb, and not performance-critical code while you think about another more important/complex section of your project, participate to a meeting, discuss stuff on the phone - you just set sail and let Eclipse do the hard rowing for you. As for refactoring - delete a class named MyClass with a doStuff() method in a project, create a new interface MyClass with a doStuff() method in another project and another package, add this project as a dependency to the first project, select the first project, press ctrl+shift+O, et voila, every file was fixed, and it simply works within a few seconds even if there are a thousand sources referencing that MyClass. I'm not sure if there's any language/IDE that allows that sort of fast & furious refactor, but do tell! What are other great IDE/language combos?