4 ms·

The days of confirming a person's identity by testing their knowledge on the person's metadata are long past (if they ever existed in the first place). I don't

The days of confirming a person's identity by testing their knowledge on the person's metadata are long past (if they ever existed in the first place). I don't know what the best solution to this will look like, or if society will ever try to implement one. A lot of people are against having a Federal ID. A private solution will have its own set of problems. The good news is, its the responsibility of the place that's issuing the credit to do due diligence of confirming an identity. If someone steals your private details and gets approved for a line of credit using them, life will suck for a bit while you sort it out, but you'll never actually owe that money (no matter what the debt collectors tell you).

toomuchtodo 5y ago
> I don't know what the best solution to this will look like, or if society will ever try to implement one. https://billhunt.dev/blog/2020/12/18/federal-policy-recs/#4-solve-identity-once-and-for-all https://billhunt.dev/blog/2020/12/18/federal-policy-recs/#4-... (“Federal IT Policy Recommendations: 2021-2024, 4. Solve Identity Once and for All”) (disclosure: I am not Bill, just running with their recommendations)
- Jaygles 5y ago
  Thanks for linking me to this. From a high level it sounds pretty reasonable. The private sector likely wouldn't be able to implement an in-person verifying service at a national scale.
  - ShroudedNight 5y ago
    This sounds like it would be well suited to being provided by the postal service
    - bildung 5y ago
      This an option the German postal service provides. It works quite well. There are different levels of identity verfication available, and employees are able to complete the lower levels at your door. An personal example I had a few years ago was signing a cellphone contract online. The postal employee delivered the sim card after verifying my identiy at the door (you can't get phone contracts without ID around here). For the higher levels one has to go to the postal office, and it includes a bit more paperwork. These are only used for higher sums, mine was for a bigger leasing contract for my company.
    - davchana 5y ago
      Using USPS's normal services, mailing etc, is difficult for me at least now because of hours. Its ooen from 8:30 to 5:00 on weekdays, & I have to run in my lunch to get something done, or otherwise have to wait for saturday. Would love it to shift an hour morning or evening, like 7 to 4, or 9 to 6 or something. With this suggested in-person verification, it will be more important than ever.
u801e 5y ago
> I don't know what the best solution to this will look like Changing the law to require that banks prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they entered into a contract with you. The burden should be on the bank/creditor to prove that they extended a line of credit to you. It shouldn't be up to you to prove that you didn't. I mean, imagine if you could hold any company liable for fraud if you received a phishing email that appeared to be from them.
- Terr_ 5y ago
  Indeed, it's an incentive problem. Banks create shitty systems because when their systems fail someone else suffers. Even the phrase "identity theft" is a misleading attempt to shift the blame, as humorously depicted in this Mitchell & Webb comedy sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    Thx for that video.... it's great!
- hakfoo 5y ago
  I believe it needs to be a person-to-person interaction. You want a line of credit? You have to go into a physical location, get photographed, maybe a fingerprint scan. Ideally, we centralize the data. This serves several goals: 1) It provides a huge resource bank for fraud detection. On the small scale, you can flip the records to law enforcement as soon as someone says that their identity was stolen. On a big scale, you could identify serial fraudsters-- if the same guy applies at 12 banks under 12 names, a red flag needs to go off as soon as he steps into bank No. 13. 2) It makes applying for credit a serious, conscious thing that discourages frivolous use. The Klarna/Affirm style "instant credit" disappears. I think there are many people who will be better with their money just because of the shame of going into a bank and admitting they need another credit line. 3) You have an opportunity for direct intervention. Applying for credit may be a crisis signal-- maybe te guy taking your picture has some basic training and guidance to ask "are you undergoing financial abuse by a spouse?" or "you know that you're buying into a classic 419 scam?"
nightski 5y ago
You don't have to answer the questions legitimately. As long as you are able to remember the answers, that is all that matters.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

> I don't know what the best solution to this will look like, or if society will ever try to implement one. https://billhunt.dev/blog/2020/12/18/federal-policy-recs/#4-solve-identity-once-and-for-all https://billhunt.dev/blog/2020/12/18/federal-policy-recs/#4-... (“Federal IT Policy Recommendations: 2021-2024, 4. Solve Identity Once and for All”) (disclosure: I am not Bill, just running with their recommendations)

Jaygles 5y ago
Thanks for linking me to this. From a high level it sounds pretty reasonable. The private sector likely wouldn't be able to implement an in-person verifying service at a national scale.
- ShroudedNight 5y ago
  This sounds like it would be well suited to being provided by the postal service
  - bildung 5y ago
    This an option the German postal service provides. It works quite well. There are different levels of identity verfication available, and employees are able to complete the lower levels at your door. An personal example I had a few years ago was signing a cellphone contract online. The postal employee delivered the sim card after verifying my identiy at the door (you can't get phone contracts without ID around here). For the higher levels one has to go to the postal office, and it includes a bit more paperwork. These are only used for higher sums, mine was for a bigger leasing contract for my company.
  - davchana 5y ago
    Using USPS's normal services, mailing etc, is difficult for me at least now because of hours. Its ooen from 8:30 to 5:00 on weekdays, & I have to run in my lunch to get something done, or otherwise have to wait for saturday. Would love it to shift an hour morning or evening, like 7 to 4, or 9 to 6 or something. With this suggested in-person verification, it will be more important than ever.

u801e 5y ago

> I don't know what the best solution to this will look like Changing the law to require that banks prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they entered into a contract with you. The burden should be on the bank/creditor to prove that they extended a line of credit to you. It shouldn't be up to you to prove that you didn't. I mean, imagine if you could hold any company liable for fraud if you received a phishing email that appeared to be from them.

Terr_ 5y ago
Indeed, it's an incentive problem. Banks create shitty systems because when their systems fail someone else suffers. Even the phrase "identity theft" is a misleading attempt to shift the blame, as humorously depicted in this Mitchell & Webb comedy sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Thx for that video.... it's great!
hakfoo 5y ago
I believe it needs to be a person-to-person interaction. You want a line of credit? You have to go into a physical location, get photographed, maybe a fingerprint scan. Ideally, we centralize the data. This serves several goals: 1) It provides a huge resource bank for fraud detection. On the small scale, you can flip the records to law enforcement as soon as someone says that their identity was stolen. On a big scale, you could identify serial fraudsters-- if the same guy applies at 12 banks under 12 names, a red flag needs to go off as soon as he steps into bank No. 13. 2) It makes applying for credit a serious, conscious thing that discourages frivolous use. The Klarna/Affirm style "instant credit" disappears. I think there are many people who will be better with their money just because of the shame of going into a bank and admitting they need another credit line. 3) You have an opportunity for direct intervention. Applying for credit may be a crisis signal-- maybe te guy taking your picture has some basic training and guidance to ask "are you undergoing financial abuse by a spouse?" or "you know that you're buying into a classic 419 scam?"

nightski 5y ago

You don't have to answer the questions legitimately. As long as you are able to remember the answers, that is all that matters.