4 ms·

I learned to drive in Mexico at 13, where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals (see the black arrow on the wall? that means don't stop). I rem

I learned to drive in Mexico at 13, where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals (see the black arrow on the wall? that means don't stop). I remember thinking about how different things were when trying to get my driver's license in US at age 16 - almost easier - in spite of how many more rules there were. I wonder how self-driving cars perform when trained in a world of rules and order and are then thrown into complete chaos in other places. What does training look like? Do self-driving cars only work in certain countries where they have been trained?

rossdavidh 5y ago
Well, they don't really "work" anywhere, if your standards are high enough. But your point is valid; making a self-driving car for many national markets has to be harder than making a regular car for those same markets.
moralestapia 5y ago
>where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals ... That's a lie, though. The meme that México is an uncivilized place is dumb and doesn't hold much substance. Edit: Downvote me all you want, GP's statement is laughably easy to disprove. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- bagels 5y ago
  The one time I went to Mexico, my taxi driver nearly crashed in to a police car because he and the police car both ran their stop signs at a four way stop. The police didn't pull him over, it's a normal occurrence, apparently. There was more mayhem, but that one is illustrative. In my experience, the laws are not as closely adhered to as I have seen in other places.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  As a Mexican-American living in San Diego, driving in TJ is way different. Like, so chaotic that I refuse to do it different. I leave the driving to the locals when I'm there. I don't think anyone's saying Mexico is uncivilized. It's a beautiful place with beautiful people, massive cultural output, great universities, etc. I'm just not going to invest in a startup trying to build self-driving cars for Latin America anytime soon.
  - elpakal 5y ago
    100% - definitely not saying Mexico is uncivilized, I love it very much. But the traffic laws are just not the same people!
- sasper 5y ago
  OP was being a bit hyperbolic, but driving in Mexico (and most of Latin America) is much different than in the US. I lived and overlanded with motorcycles in Mexico, Guatemala, Colombia, and Chile for the last 12 years and could talk for hours about how the mentality of driving in the US doesn't translate to Latin America. Blinkers can mean something different at different times, depending on context, while traffic lights and signs are treated as a suggestion. Speed limits and their enforcement are non-existent (outside of expensive toll road), and lane lines aren't something that have meaning. Pedestrian traffic (or hell, animal and farm traffic) is unexpected and unexplainable, as are public transportation options (imagine giant school buses flying through roads, playing leapfrog to get in front of one another to be able to pick up the next people waiting for a ride). The consequence of these differences for self driving cars will be a very, very difficult problem to solve unless the majority of the vehicles are self driving, which is not a solution that will happen anytime soon in Latin America.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    +1 If you've never seen or riden a camionetas it's hard to describe! I go (or used to) Guatemala a lot and the Camionetas are so insanely scary! Going over huge mountains, roads with giant holes in them, tipping this way and that, filled 3x per seat or omre with mounds of carrots and cargo on top. lots of times the money guy hangs out the front entrance while it's driving! They go SO fast it's super scary to me I'm surprised I haven't seen one tip over on those corners or bust a brake and run off the mountain.
jmchuster 5y ago
Not even per-country, self-driving algos are trained per city. Just in the tri-state area, you have NYC's extreme aggressiveness, New Jersey's jug handles, and Pittsburgh's lefts.
- jxding 5y ago
  This sounds hilarious. What are jug handles, and what are lefts?
- harambae 5y ago
  I'm curious what company tunes locally to this level of driving characteristics (not for different laws which is sometimes necessary, but for different expected aggressiveness and situational awareness like you mention) I work in this space and am not aware of what you're describing. M/L calibration is tuned where it's legally allowed to run on the streets as well as where there's interesting problems to practice against (bridges, tunnels, etc.)
  - jmchuster 5y ago
    I was thinking of nuTonomy when i wrote my comment.
matz1 5y ago
>What does training look like? The same way how human learn/train. Observe how most people behave then imitate.
paxys 5y ago
Either the car is trained on Mexico's streets and so behaves as aggressively as the rest of the traffic, or a significant enough number of vehicles are self driving so they can essentially regulate the streets themselves.

rossdavidh 5y ago

Well, they don't really "work" anywhere, if your standards are high enough. But your point is valid; making a self-driving car for many national markets has to be harder than making a regular car for those same markets.

moralestapia 5y ago

>where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals ... That's a lie, though. The meme that México is an uncivilized place is dumb and doesn't hold much substance. Edit: Downvote me all you want, GP's statement is laughably easy to disprove. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

bagels 5y ago
The one time I went to Mexico, my taxi driver nearly crashed in to a police car because he and the police car both ran their stop signs at a four way stop. The police didn't pull him over, it's a normal occurrence, apparently. There was more mayhem, but that one is illustrative. In my experience, the laws are not as closely adhered to as I have seen in other places.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
As a Mexican-American living in San Diego, driving in TJ is way different. Like, so chaotic that I refuse to do it different. I leave the driving to the locals when I'm there. I don't think anyone's saying Mexico is uncivilized. It's a beautiful place with beautiful people, massive cultural output, great universities, etc. I'm just not going to invest in a startup trying to build self-driving cars for Latin America anytime soon.
- elpakal 5y ago
  100% - definitely not saying Mexico is uncivilized, I love it very much. But the traffic laws are just not the same people!
sasper 5y ago
OP was being a bit hyperbolic, but driving in Mexico (and most of Latin America) is much different than in the US. I lived and overlanded with motorcycles in Mexico, Guatemala, Colombia, and Chile for the last 12 years and could talk for hours about how the mentality of driving in the US doesn't translate to Latin America. Blinkers can mean something different at different times, depending on context, while traffic lights and signs are treated as a suggestion. Speed limits and their enforcement are non-existent (outside of expensive toll road), and lane lines aren't something that have meaning. Pedestrian traffic (or hell, animal and farm traffic) is unexpected and unexplainable, as are public transportation options (imagine giant school buses flying through roads, playing leapfrog to get in front of one another to be able to pick up the next people waiting for a ride). The consequence of these differences for self driving cars will be a very, very difficult problem to solve unless the majority of the vehicles are self driving, which is not a solution that will happen anytime soon in Latin America.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  +1 If you've never seen or riden a camionetas it's hard to describe! I go (or used to) Guatemala a lot and the Camionetas are so insanely scary! Going over huge mountains, roads with giant holes in them, tipping this way and that, filled 3x per seat or omre with mounds of carrots and cargo on top. lots of times the money guy hangs out the front entrance while it's driving! They go SO fast it's super scary to me I'm surprised I haven't seen one tip over on those corners or bust a brake and run off the mountain.

jmchuster 5y ago

Not even per-country, self-driving algos are trained per city. Just in the tri-state area, you have NYC's extreme aggressiveness, New Jersey's jug handles, and Pittsburgh's lefts.

jxding 5y ago
This sounds hilarious. What are jug handles, and what are lefts?
harambae 5y ago
I'm curious what company tunes locally to this level of driving characteristics (not for different laws which is sometimes necessary, but for different expected aggressiveness and situational awareness like you mention) I work in this space and am not aware of what you're describing. M/L calibration is tuned where it's legally allowed to run on the streets as well as where there's interesting problems to practice against (bridges, tunnels, etc.)
- jmchuster 5y ago
  I was thinking of nuTonomy when i wrote my comment.

matz1 5y ago

>What does training look like? The same way how human learn/train. Observe how most people behave then imitate.

paxys 5y ago

Either the car is trained on Mexico's streets and so behaves as aggressively as the rest of the traffic, or a significant enough number of vehicles are self driving so they can essentially regulate the streets themselves.