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Your bizarre cheeriness in the face of "Agreeing to End Deceptive Educational Financing Practices" is offputting, especially when coupled with the way college f
by pradn 5y ago
Your bizarre cheeriness in the face of "Agreeing to End Deceptive Educational Financing Practices" is offputting, especially when coupled with the way college financing has led to generational deadweight, anxiety, and hopelessness.
- wakeywakeywakey 5y agoReminds me of the 'Human Heater' pitch from the Silicon Valley show [1] [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di3fPj0pUbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di3fPj0pUbQ
- judge2020 5y ago> It has not been shown conclusively that microwaves (or other non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation) have significant adverse biological effects at low levels. Some, but not all, studies suggest that long-term exposure may have a carcinogenic effect. He might not be entirely wrong. They're still not going to sell any to the general public, though, especially if it is carcinogenic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Health_effects:~:text=It%20has%20not%20been%20shown%20conclusively,exposure%20may%20have%20a%20carcinogenic%20effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Health_effects:~:tex...
- davidw 5y agoWhat's he supposed to do? Rant about the government? Making the best of it and moving on is probably the best move, since it doesn't sound like a big hit to their business. Also, it looks like you get out of Lambda School debts via bankruptcy, which you don't with regular college, so that's... an improvement?
- rajacombinator 5y agoNot to mention that Lambda School is an attempt to actually align the incentives of school and students, which is the main problem with educational financing today. Wrong target to pile on.
- sugarwater 5y agoAs a student that went through the program, I question if their incentives were aligned. During the middle of my enrollment at the program (Sept 2020), the school suddenly dropped all notion of grading, code review, and attendance, let alone the length of the program. It remained this way for 3 months, 50% of the length of the program. This is a broad description of the changes, but I want to emphasize that the changes were terrible, _many_ students complained, and the school essentially whistled with fingers in their ears.
- hluska 5y agoAre you doing okay now?? That sounds awful...:(
- sugarwater 5y agoI graduated at the end of February and am still job searching. In the meantime I have a part time job and working through the MIT Computer Science OCW
- hluska 5y agoIf I was in a position to offer you something I would but I’m not. With some luck, someone else will see this and help you out. That said, I’ve read through your profile and you’re a heck of a good writer. You likely don’t need any help and you’re going to do very well for yourself!! :)
- sugarwater 5y agoThanks! Nobody's ever told me that about my writing! My email is open if anyone wants to chat, to anyone that sees this :-)
- pseudalopex 5y agoSaying nothing was an option.
- anchpop 5y agoWhy would you prefer he say nothing? As long as he’s not misleading people I don’t see what the harm of commenting is.
- minimaxir 5y agoSpinning a negative as a positive is misleading at best.
- pepy 5y agoyou say misleading? how surprising
- pseudalopex 5y agoFraming a request to stop making false claims about dischargeability as a request to clarify them is misleading. Making it seem like those were the only false claims the settlement covered is misleading too.
- threatofrain 5y ago> Also, it looks like you get out of Lambda School debts via bankruptcy, which you don't with regular college, so that's... an improvement? That was always the case, Lambda School just communicated otherwise to students.
- sandofsky 5y ago> What's he supposed to do? Apologize. > Also, it looks like you get out of Lambda School debts via bankruptcy, which you don't with regular college, so that's... an improvement? "You can't discharge student debt," is actually a myth. I have two relatives that discharged their loans due to financial hardship. It isn't trivial, but there's a process. The issue with ISAs, in their current form, is the lack of legal framework. Short of bankruptcy, the best you can do is lawyer up. Lambda School targets people who can't afford lawyers.
- LMYahooTFY 5y agoI imagine you might ignore me here since you opted out of our other thread, but I'd like to ask: What specific issues do you have with the ISA?
- foerbert 5y agoThis response just appears disconnected from reality. It's like watching somebody talk about how getting punched in the face was a wonderful and purely positive experience. It's just baffling. There are options other than being weirdly positive and ranting. They could not say anything at all. They could give one of several varieties of mea culpa. They could simply state their intentions going forward.
- TheRealPomax 5y agoIn this particular case? It's an HN item, it's going to drop off the front page in <12 hours, so... not commenting would have been far more sensible than to try to PR-convince a cynical tech crowd.
- threatofrain 5y ago> Also, it looks like you get out of Lambda School debts via bankruptcy, which you don't with regular college, so that's... an improvement? But if you lie about it, then...
- cactus2093 5y agoYour bizarre grumpishness is offputting, especially when coupled with the fact that Lambda's model that they're understandably excited about here is aiming to improve on the same broken existing model of college financing that you're complaining about. Edit: come on, at least comment if you're downvoting. What did I say that is inaccurate?
- minimaxir 5y agoYou are being downvoted because the "it's ok they did bad things for a good cause" argument is not a moral high ground.
- cactus2093 5y agoThey tried to use a solution that was better than traditional loans in some ways (don't have to pay it until/unless you get a job) and just as bad in some ways (not dischargeable in bankruptcy). That's still clearly a better option overall for a lot of people. Now after this settlement, it's an even better option since they have removed the bankruptcy clause. It is bizarre to spin this that "they were doing bad things" beforehand.
- foerbert 5y agoCan't downvote even if I wanted to, but... > Lambda's model that they're understandably excited about here You seemingly imply their bizarre positivity to being forced to stop their deceptive practices is a merely a result of them being excited about their model. How does that track at all? What does one have to do with the other? And on top of all that, you started by calling a critical response to their extreme positivity in the face of regulation for deceptive business practices "bizarre grumpishness."
- michaelbuckbee 5y agoI'd agree with you except that in this case it seems like the "deception" was actually working against Lambda school. Previously -> if you go bankrupt you still owe us. Now -> if you go bankrupt you don't owe us. On the face of it this seems like it would make Lambda school _more_ attractive than less. Note, the clause in question is "qualified educational loan…subject to the limitations on dischargeability contained in…the United States Bankruptcy Code."
- judge2020 5y agoMaybe more attractive, but only in the 'defraud them by going bankrupt after getting the certification' sense, where they educate the students without getting paid in some cases. One of the biggest reasons student loans can't be forgiven in bankruptcy is because, after school, chances are the graduate has zero assets and can go bankrupt with the only downside being destroying their credit for 7 years. Whether or not you think this is justified or fair is up to you, but the situation before this ruling simply [de-]elevated Lambda School to the same playing field as other educational institutions - the only difference being that those institutions don't offer student loans themselves.
- marcinzm 5y agoIt's not about being attractive, it's about ex-students not declaring bankruptcy because they think it won't remove their lambda school loans. Thus lambda school keeps getting money from them instead of getting nothing after they decide to declare bankruptcy. That clause was, in my eyes, clearly designed to discourage students from exercising their ability to clear debts via bankruptcy.
- narwally 5y agoYep, it's about "Human Capital: The Last Unoptimized Asset Class" <- the title of an actual internal memo they wrote.
- ghufran_syed 5y agowhat’s wrong with that? is it better that people can’t develop their human capital, or is it better if people have a variety of ways to finance education to develop their human capital? The status quo is government student loans to finance education, which are generally NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy, AND must still be paid even if if you didn’t graduate, or get a good job afterwards? Isn’t the income-share agreement at least “less bad”? I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on how better to address the problem? If the government was involved, I personally think the best way would be a graduate tax of x%
- jamiequint 5y agoYour inane judginess is offputting, especially when coupled with how Lambda School is providing attractive alternative options the expensive colleges you're whining about.
- lupire 5y agoI'm surprised that non-anonymous people, who rely on their salesmanship for income, are comfortable publicly embarrassing themselves like this.
- jamiequint 5y agoGenerally people who build interesting things don't enjoy shitting on other people's attempts to change the world for the better. I give less than zero shits if people who adopt this type of attitude don't want to work with me. They're not worth working with to begin with. Go look at the HN launch posts for Dropbox or Coinbase, or the struggles of other companies trying to do something new and make a difference and look at the parade of negative nancies shitting on these companies. It's gross, and they look foolish. I'm on the side of the builders.
- minimaxir 5y agoLambda's customers (students who want to learn how to code and are negatively impacted by this deception) are builders too.
- jamiequint 5y agoWe're talking about a single section in a probably lengthy contract in an area of law (ISAs) that barely existed until a few years ago. I feel like half of HN is picturing a cigar smoking villain, the reality of it is probably far more boring.
- mbesto 5y agoPeople are critical because "world changer builders" can often be found skirting rules that the rest of us have to play in. You're a self described growth hacker, which likely means you too have probably bent a few rules in your day. That's not a criticism of you - you can do your business how you like - but don't be surprised when a bunch of aspiring hackers/techies get annoyed when they see people who do bend the rules to their gain (financial or otherwise) despite having access to the worlds most prominent investors (read -> resources) and seemingly don't do their homework. It challenges the average joe's assumption about what is right and wrong in the tech startup world. Like does Lambda not have access to Wilson Sonsini lawyers like the rest of their cohort? Or more plausibly, are they just willfully ignorant towards wanting to make sure they play by every rule (e.g. hire lawyers) that comes into their chosen market? Move fast and break things am I right?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- LMYahooTFY 5y agoYou seem to not be aware of how Lambda School operates at all. It in no way resembles the college financing model, and in fact the purpose was to succeed in precisely the way it does not.