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One interesting tidbit: they appear to be reporting a $272M in revenue from the sale of Bitcoin holdings

jbverschoor 5y ago
Interesting.. I didn't expect that.
scottmsul 5y ago
This is interesting, I would have expected a loss. I recall MSTR had to report a loss in 2020 even though it went up a lot, due to how GAAP works with bitcoin. Basically if you buy bitcoin (or any property) at $X, then it dips to $Y, then goes back up to $Z, you have to report the difference between X and Y (purchase price - lowest point) as a GAAP loss.
- sgw928 5y ago
  That $272M number is proceeds from selling digital assets, not profits.
  - parentheses 5y ago
    as in the sale of the btc itself.
throwastrike 5y ago
That really is pathetic. How’s that revenue? and what CFO would sign off on that let alone a CFO for one of the largest companies in the world?
popol12 5y ago
I don't see where in this report
- sgw928 5y ago
  See the $272M "proceeds from sales of digital assets" in the statement of cash flows on page 26.
bob33212 5y ago
Bitcoin could crash at any time. They need to hedge against that.
- m00dy 5y ago
  any source for your claim ?
  - DarknessFalls 5y ago
    It went down more than 10% in the last two weeks? It's not based on anything substantial.
  - TaupeRanger 5y ago
    "Prices on things could go up or down." "PLEASE WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE ON THAT??"
- xiphias2 5y ago
  They have cash balances, that’s quite a good hedge against Bitcoin going in either direction.
parentheses 5y ago
That's roughly 3000 cars sold in crypto at ~90k per car
arcticbull 5y ago
This is a pretty big pivot from: "You can now buy a Tesla with Bitcoin... Tesla is using only internal & open source software & operates Bitcoin nodes directly. Bitcoin paid to Tesla will be retained as Bitcoin, not converted to fiat currency" Turns out it will in fact be converted to fiat currency while Elon continues to pump his bags on Twitter. "What does the future hodl?" In any other asset class this would be blatant, illegal market manipulation. I believe this is what you call the ol' pump-n-dump.
- xdrosenheim 5y ago
  Would this be okay to do as a private individual? I'm just thinking that if he doesn't mention any of his companies and just say something like: "I like this stock/crypto", if that would still be illegal and/or market manipulation. Then some days later, make payment available with Bitcoin.
- ed25519FUUU 5y ago
  It’s obvious with his pumping of doge coins.
- CyberDildonics 5y ago
  What law specifically are you referring to? Can you link to it?
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Totally. That would be the Securities Act of 1933, the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and 18 U.S. Code Sections 371, 1341, 1343, 1348, and 1349. I’ll leave it as an exercise for you if you’d like to read the full text but an analysis is available as [1]. There’s a reason Tim Cook isn’t out on Twitter shilling the companies Apple has invested in while selling their shares. I’m led to believe Club Fed isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. [1] https://www.criminallawyergroup.com/practice-areas/securities-and-commodities-fraud/pump-dump-schemes/ https://www.criminallawyergroup.com/practice-areas/securitie...
    - 5y ago
csomar 5y ago
Not revenue, rather $272M cash flow from Digital assets. They also spent $1.5Bn in purchases. So net is ~1.2bn. They are pretty transparent about that in the beginning of the report: "Net cash outflow of $1.2B related to Bitcoin in Q1"
yaa_minu 5y ago
Elon claims they sold the 10% only to prove the liquidity of bitcoin and he himself hasn't sold any of his personal holdings[1] 1. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1386821144037236737 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1386821144037236737
- tenpies 5y ago
  Imagine buying $1.5 BB of something and not knowing if it's liquid. You're either grossly incompetent and should be kept away from all money, or an ARK investing analyst.
  - jiofih 5y ago
    Hence you sell someone to prove to your observers that it is, indeed, liquid.
- xkjkls 5y ago
  Ah yes, I remember falling for the "we only sold to prove our liquidity" back in my young and naive investment years.

Interesting.. I didn't expect that.

This is interesting, I would have expected a loss. I recall MSTR had to report a loss in 2020 even though it went up a lot, due to how GAAP works with bitcoin. Basically if you buy bitcoin (or any property) at $X, then it dips to $Y, then goes back up to $Z, you have to report the difference between X and Y (purchase price - lowest point) as a GAAP loss.

sgw928 5y ago
That $272M number is proceeds from selling digital assets, not profits.
- parentheses 5y ago
  as in the sale of the btc itself.

throwastrike 5y ago

That really is pathetic. How’s that revenue? and what CFO would sign off on that let alone a CFO for one of the largest companies in the world?

popol12 5y ago

I don't see where in this report

sgw928 5y ago
See the $272M "proceeds from sales of digital assets" in the statement of cash flows on page 26.

bob33212 5y ago

Bitcoin could crash at any time. They need to hedge against that.

m00dy 5y ago
any source for your claim ?
- DarknessFalls 5y ago
  It went down more than 10% in the last two weeks? It's not based on anything substantial.
- TaupeRanger 5y ago
  "Prices on things could go up or down." "PLEASE WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE ON THAT??"
xiphias2 5y ago
They have cash balances, that’s quite a good hedge against Bitcoin going in either direction.

parentheses 5y ago

That's roughly 3000 cars sold in crypto at ~90k per car

arcticbull 5y ago

This is a pretty big pivot from: "You can now buy a Tesla with Bitcoin... Tesla is using only internal & open source software & operates Bitcoin nodes directly. Bitcoin paid to Tesla will be retained as Bitcoin, not converted to fiat currency" Turns out it will in fact be converted to fiat currency while Elon continues to pump his bags on Twitter. "What does the future hodl?" In any other asset class this would be blatant, illegal market manipulation. I believe this is what you call the ol' pump-n-dump.

xdrosenheim 5y ago
Would this be okay to do as a private individual? I'm just thinking that if he doesn't mention any of his companies and just say something like: "I like this stock/crypto", if that would still be illegal and/or market manipulation. Then some days later, make payment available with Bitcoin.
ed25519FUUU 5y ago
It’s obvious with his pumping of doge coins.
CyberDildonics 5y ago
What law specifically are you referring to? Can you link to it?
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Totally. That would be the Securities Act of 1933, the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and 18 U.S. Code Sections 371, 1341, 1343, 1348, and 1349. I’ll leave it as an exercise for you if you’d like to read the full text but an analysis is available as [1]. There’s a reason Tim Cook isn’t out on Twitter shilling the companies Apple has invested in while selling their shares. I’m led to believe Club Fed isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. [1] https://www.criminallawyergroup.com/practice-areas/securities-and-commodities-fraud/pump-dump-schemes/ https://www.criminallawyergroup.com/practice-areas/securitie...
  - 5y ago

csomar 5y ago

Not revenue, rather $272M cash flow from Digital assets. They also spent $1.5Bn in purchases. So net is ~1.2bn. They are pretty transparent about that in the beginning of the report: "Net cash outflow of $1.2B related to Bitcoin in Q1"

yaa_minu 5y ago

Elon claims they sold the 10% only to prove the liquidity of bitcoin and he himself hasn't sold any of his personal holdings[1] 1. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1386821144037236737 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1386821144037236737

tenpies 5y ago
Imagine buying $1.5 BB of something and not knowing if it's liquid. You're either grossly incompetent and should be kept away from all money, or an ARK investing analyst.
- jiofih 5y ago
  Hence you sell someone to prove to your observers that it is, indeed, liquid.
xkjkls 5y ago
Ah yes, I remember falling for the "we only sold to prove our liquidity" back in my young and naive investment years.