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That accountability step is part of the intent for daily standups in most agile disciplines. The five minutes it takes for everyone to say what they worked on s

That accountability step is part of the intent for daily standups in most agile disciplines. The five minutes it takes for everyone to say what they worked on since the last one, what they plan to work on, and what obstacles they have, is great both for forcing people to focus a bit, as well as for managers to help point out when someone is stuck (i.e., "you've been working on that the past few days; is something wrong?")

fartcannon 6y ago
"Yes, I can't stop worrying about tomorrows standup and, as a result, I'm incredibly inefficient."
deckard1 6y ago
The flip side of this is what I would term standup-driven-development. You work just enough to have something to say that day. Rinse and repeat for the next day. The incentive isn't to do more or better work. The incentive is to have something impressive to say at the next meeting. The other issue with standups is if it's not "on the board" then developers are disincentivized from doing certain things (proper testing of code, code reviews, etc.) in favor of things that show up.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Standups can help close the short-term feedback loop, but they don't replace long-term management involvement. Teams with standups still need proper performance management and performance reviews from a hands-on manager, along with clear communication of goals and expectations. > The other issue with standups is if it's not "on the board" then developers are disincentivized from doing certain things (proper testing of code, code reviews, etc.) in favor of things that show up. If important things are missing from the board, that's a problem with the planning process. It's easier than it sounds to simply put those things up on the board. If engineers realize something important is not on the board, they need to get it up on the board. Communication needs to go both ways in planning sessions.
tikhonj 6y ago
This is why I find standups (and other ceremonies) patronizing and exhausting. It's like you have to publicly defend yourself and your work every single day. There's a massive difference between setting up accountability for yourself and having your manager/team/etc impose a public accountability ritual on you. Doubly so because it's usually billed as being about "visibility" or "alignment" or something else, as if it isn't about mico-level "accountability".
- cdogl 6y ago
  I couldn't agree more. The feeling you are describing is felt particularly acutely by individuals who are junior, or for one reason or another (low self esteem, flagging mental health, membership of a group that experiences disproportionate marginalisation in the workplace), and in my experience it subtly but profoundly warps developers' motivations and drives. Tasks can become all about rushing to get some progress made so you have something to say in stand-up or the weekly showcase, and not about actually patiently thinking problems through at whatever level of detail is appropriate at their org scale.
  - tgaj 6y ago
    I don't understand. Can't you say on stand-up that you are "patiently thinking problem"? You can try to explain how this process works for other team members and maybe they will learn something new. If you can't explain what you are doing maybe it's not as important as you think.
- lostcolony 6y ago
  So as with everything agile, the process is -nothing- without the culture. You can't fix culture with process. If the culture is right, it's enabling. If the culture is wrong, it's patronizing. It's not intended to be a public accountability ritual; it's intended to make it so you're participating in setting the expectations of the team, and if you're not living up to them, the team looks to figure out how to better support and enable you.
  - tikhonj 6y ago

fartcannon 6y ago

"Yes, I can't stop worrying about tomorrows standup and, as a result, I'm incredibly inefficient."

deckard1 6y ago

The flip side of this is what I would term standup-driven-development. You work just enough to have something to say that day. Rinse and repeat for the next day. The incentive isn't to do more or better work. The incentive is to have something impressive to say at the next meeting. The other issue with standups is if it's not "on the board" then developers are disincentivized from doing certain things (proper testing of code, code reviews, etc.) in favor of things that show up.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Standups can help close the short-term feedback loop, but they don't replace long-term management involvement. Teams with standups still need proper performance management and performance reviews from a hands-on manager, along with clear communication of goals and expectations. > The other issue with standups is if it's not "on the board" then developers are disincentivized from doing certain things (proper testing of code, code reviews, etc.) in favor of things that show up. If important things are missing from the board, that's a problem with the planning process. It's easier than it sounds to simply put those things up on the board. If engineers realize something important is not on the board, they need to get it up on the board. Communication needs to go both ways in planning sessions.

tikhonj 6y ago

This is why I find standups (and other ceremonies) patronizing and exhausting. It's like you have to publicly defend yourself and your work every single day. There's a massive difference between setting up accountability for yourself and having your manager/team/etc impose a public accountability ritual on you. Doubly so because it's usually billed as being about "visibility" or "alignment" or something else, as if it isn't about mico-level "accountability".

cdogl 6y ago
I couldn't agree more. The feeling you are describing is felt particularly acutely by individuals who are junior, or for one reason or another (low self esteem, flagging mental health, membership of a group that experiences disproportionate marginalisation in the workplace), and in my experience it subtly but profoundly warps developers' motivations and drives. Tasks can become all about rushing to get some progress made so you have something to say in stand-up or the weekly showcase, and not about actually patiently thinking problems through at whatever level of detail is appropriate at their org scale.
- tgaj 6y ago
  I don't understand. Can't you say on stand-up that you are "patiently thinking problem"? You can try to explain how this process works for other team members and maybe they will learn something new. If you can't explain what you are doing maybe it's not as important as you think.
lostcolony 6y ago
So as with everything agile, the process is -nothing- without the culture. You can't fix culture with process. If the culture is right, it's enabling. If the culture is wrong, it's patronizing. It's not intended to be a public accountability ritual; it's intended to make it so you're participating in setting the expectations of the team, and if you're not living up to them, the team looks to figure out how to better support and enable you.
- tikhonj 6y ago