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WeChat actively traps you within its walled garden ecosystem with dark patterns and support from the government. A lot of shops or even government services only

by gaudat 5y ago

WeChat actively traps you within its walled garden ecosystem with dark patterns and support from the government. A lot of shops or even government services only have an online presence in WeChat and Alipay. They are called "Mini-Apps" which I believe is unique to China and these 2 apps. It is practically impossible to find vendors or developers for these services as someone outside mainland China. It is completely possible to replicate this function of Telegram ourselves with ordinary web technologies and service providers. Not to mention Telegram is transparent in letting your data out of its ecosystem (at least for now). Provide that we still have the freedom to host any online service as website or an app on App Store / Play Store, I nelieve we will never decay into the dystopian state that is WeChat. TLDR: WeChat is way more evil than Telegram, even Facebook.

em-bee 5y ago
unlike facebook, wechat does not algorithmically decide which content i should see. i get all posts from all my connections in linear order. they are not pushed on me either (i can easily ignore them) unlike whatsapp, wechat also does not require me to share my phone number. (at least, for the brief time that i tried whatsapp, i could not find a way to hide my number) wechat also doesn't announce to everyone who happens to have my phonenumber, that i am now on wechat. wechat lets me control how people can contact me. the default is that people need to ask for my permission before they can add me as contacts and talk to me. miniapps are just fancy websites designed to display inside wechat, with easy access to my wechat id. but they actually have to ask permissions if they want to use that id for anything. a vender being only on wechat is no different than a vendor being only on facebook. or on telegram. it's simply a result of market dominance. not good, but not evil either. there is only one dark pattern that i noticed, that is it is no easy way to export all the content stored inside wechat.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Can we all just agree that there are different variations on the theme of dark patterns and market domination and that one corporation isn't the "end all/be all" of evil? They're both bad. At least you can reasonably avoid FB but if you're in China, how do you avoid WeChat?
  - em-bee 5y ago
    i am not trying to argue that wechat is better than facebook. yes, they are both bad. i am just trying to offer some counterpoints to show that wechat isn't really worse either. the only reason i need to be on wechat is to keep in touch with friends. the same would be true elsewhere where some people are only on facebook/whatsapp. (there are some facebook only groups that i would like to join too) wechat payment is convenient, but there are alternatives. and cash still works (online shopping also works directly with a bank account). i managed to avoid wechat for the greater part of a decade here, until i was no longer able to avoid it because i was locked out of to many contacts who were only on wechat.
- wrinkl3 5y ago
  > unlike whatsapp, wechat also does not require me to share my phone number. Doesn't WeChat in China require users to sign up with their national ID?
  - em-bee 5y ago
    i was not taking about sign up. a phone number is required to register, so i share the number with wechat. but wechat does not force me to share my number with other contacts. the national id is not required as far as i know, because then foreigners would not be able to sign up
    - 3v1n0 5y ago
      I confirm I signed up for WeeChat 4-5 years ago when I was in China for a work trip and I was able to use it without any ID.
gaius_baltar 5y ago
> Not to mention Telegram is transparent in letting your data out of its ecosystem (at least for now). Unless you try to export a secret chat from an non-rooted Android phone or a non-jailbroken iPhone. The app not only lack a feature for that but also prevents it from being backup-up -- which is a shame as an offline, adb-based, backup is the safest way of getting data out of aff on Android, IMHO.

by gaudat 5y ago

em-bee 5y ago

unlike facebook, wechat does not algorithmically decide which content i should see. i get all posts from all my connections in linear order. they are not pushed on me either (i can easily ignore them) unlike whatsapp, wechat also does not require me to share my phone number. (at least, for the brief time that i tried whatsapp, i could not find a way to hide my number) wechat also doesn't announce to everyone who happens to have my phonenumber, that i am now on wechat. wechat lets me control how people can contact me. the default is that people need to ask for my permission before they can add me as contacts and talk to me. miniapps are just fancy websites designed to display inside wechat, with easy access to my wechat id. but they actually have to ask permissions if they want to use that id for anything. a vender being only on wechat is no different than a vendor being only on facebook. or on telegram. it's simply a result of market dominance. not good, but not evil either. there is only one dark pattern that i noticed, that is it is no easy way to export all the content stored inside wechat.

r00fus 5y ago
Can we all just agree that there are different variations on the theme of dark patterns and market domination and that one corporation isn't the "end all/be all" of evil? They're both bad. At least you can reasonably avoid FB but if you're in China, how do you avoid WeChat?
- em-bee 5y ago
  i am not trying to argue that wechat is better than facebook. yes, they are both bad. i am just trying to offer some counterpoints to show that wechat isn't really worse either. the only reason i need to be on wechat is to keep in touch with friends. the same would be true elsewhere where some people are only on facebook/whatsapp. (there are some facebook only groups that i would like to join too) wechat payment is convenient, but there are alternatives. and cash still works (online shopping also works directly with a bank account). i managed to avoid wechat for the greater part of a decade here, until i was no longer able to avoid it because i was locked out of to many contacts who were only on wechat.
wrinkl3 5y ago
> unlike whatsapp, wechat also does not require me to share my phone number. Doesn't WeChat in China require users to sign up with their national ID?
- em-bee 5y ago
  i was not taking about sign up. a phone number is required to register, so i share the number with wechat. but wechat does not force me to share my number with other contacts. the national id is not required as far as i know, because then foreigners would not be able to sign up
  - 3v1n0 5y ago
    I confirm I signed up for WeeChat 4-5 years ago when I was in China for a work trip and I was able to use it without any ID.

gaius_baltar 5y ago

> Not to mention Telegram is transparent in letting your data out of its ecosystem (at least for now). Unless you try to export a secret chat from an non-rooted Android phone or a non-jailbroken iPhone. The app not only lack a feature for that but also prevents it from being backup-up -- which is a shame as an offline, adb-based, backup is the safest way of getting data out of aff on Android, IMHO.