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It's amazing how much more successful the strategy in the US for vaccines was (even against rich countries). I assumed the rest of the world was following a War

It's amazing how much more successful the strategy in the US for vaccines was (even against rich countries). I assumed the rest of the world was following a Warp Speed style approach (multiple candidates, ramping manufacturing pre approval). Did the rest of the world simply bet that vaccines would be coming 12 months later?

fsh 5y ago
I would guess that the size of the pharmaceutical industry relative to the population is the main factor.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
The US restricted exports to the rest of the world. And most of the rest of the world has no production. They left their continental allies / neighbours high and dry and relying on Europe for exports, and Europe trying to behave nicely and share. The full bore of the US's pharma manufacturing industry was dedicated 100% to its own population. So yeah. Successful. After 30 years of continental economic integration, free trade agreements, and abandonment of local economic planning, selling off of Canadian pharma manufacturing, Reagan and Mulroney singing "Irish Eyes Are Smiling", etc. Canada could not rely on the US to buy exports of vaccines.
- PoignardAzur 5y ago
  Hence the saying, "Never go into a well if all you have is american rope." I'm really hoping Europe doesn't forget that now that Biden is in office.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    Yeah I'm hoping Canada maintains some memory here, too. Biden kept in place Trump's vaccine export restrictions. But Trudeau and Biden have a better personal relationship, so we've gotten a bit of charity dusting from them. 1.5M (like... a week's supply) AZ that they couldn't use and was expiring, from a factory that it turned out had quality control issues... Hooray!
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      I'm surprised at how submissive Trudeau was with the Trump administration. For the C-Series plane, he did absolutely nothing for the industry and immediately bowed down to Trump. Engineering shipped to France and manufacturing to Alabama. Same thing with other tariffs and NAFTA negotiations. And now Canadians are surprised he wouldn't fight or invest in a domestic pharma industry?
      - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
        I am not sure what you think Trudeau could have done in any of those cases. David & Goliath makes for a nice story, but is ... fiction. And in the case of pharma, you don't just create pharma manufacturing overnight, it takes years. During the aluminum & steel trade wars Canada did counter with a series of fairly aggressive targeted tariffs. Those were lifted when the US lifted the tariffs: https://canoe.com/news/national/canadian-retaliatory-tariffs-on-u-s-bourbon-lifted-as-u-s-kills-steel-aluminum-penalties https://canoe.com/news/national/canadian-retaliatory-tariffs... "The Canadian tariffs were carefully selected to both match the dollar value of the tariffs Canadian companies were paying to the U.S., as well as to target popular products in states of prominent Republican lawmakers or swing states where voters might voice their displeasure." Same approach the EU took. Don't punish all Americans, target Republican districts. (Not a Trudeau voter, BTW.)
foolfoolz 5y ago
it’s simply money. the u. s. government paid for local vaccine companies to create it so u. s. gets first shot at supply and rights to buy more. there is no vaccine developed within the EU. UK made a vaccine and are doing well. the EU are 2nd tier customers compared to UK/US
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Pfizer's vaccine was developed by BioNtech in Germany. J&J's is from the Netherlands. AstraZeneca is UK/Swedish. Plenty of development going on in the EU. They just weren't very smart with their delivery contracts (like the 'best effort' clause with AstraZeneca).
  - Quarrel 5y ago
    AZs is Uni of Oxford for development. AZ weren't even in the vaccination business before this. Obviously they can conduct the trials and organise the manufacturing though, but that was their role here.
jsnell 5y ago
The EU countries manufactured a similar number of doses as the US (110M Vs 160M at the end of Q1). The difference is that the US effectively prevented vaccine exports, while the other big producers (EU, China, India) exported roughly half their production
lm28469 5y ago
Most of the rest of the world doesn't have the capabilities to come up with a vaccine by themselves.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  The "rest of the world" created the vaccines that Americans are using, other than Moderna.
  - lm28469 5y ago
    Out of the ~200 countries in the world how many have the capabilities to invent and produce a vaccine ? It's a fact, the vast majority of the world cannot come up with a vaccine by themselves, how's that even controversial ?
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      TFA was about Europe. Europe is where the bulk of the vaccines were invented. And the great-grandparent comment and others seem to not get it. The US is successful in its vaccination programme because of aggressive protectionism, not because of some superior technological know-how. Let me spell that out for you: the country that traipsed around the world for the last 40 years preaching free trade and laissez faire economics refuses to participate in a free market of vaccines, and has left all its trading partners high and dry. And the IP behind those vaccines did not come from the United States.
rsynnott 5y ago
The bulk of US vaccinations (and EU vaccinations, now) are with Pfizer-Biontec. Biontec which didn't accept development money from the US government, but did from the German government, so I'm not sure how relevant "warp speed" was there, really. The EU's vaccine woes are down to a combination of being one of two large producers (other is India) not to restrict export of vaccines and precursors (until recently, the EU had exported more doses than it had administered), and the AZ disaster. As of end of Q1 AZ was short 70 million doses for Europe; by end of Q2 based on its own predictions it'll be short around 220 million in total. Now the EU _could_ have gone all in on Pfizer-Biontec (and Curevac), and poured all the money into mRNA production. But that would have seemed like a pretty bizarre move 6 months ago, when there was a lot of uncertainty over how mRNA manufacture would go.

fsh 5y ago

I would guess that the size of the pharmaceutical industry relative to the population is the main factor.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

The US restricted exports to the rest of the world. And most of the rest of the world has no production. They left their continental allies / neighbours high and dry and relying on Europe for exports, and Europe trying to behave nicely and share. The full bore of the US's pharma manufacturing industry was dedicated 100% to its own population. So yeah. Successful. After 30 years of continental economic integration, free trade agreements, and abandonment of local economic planning, selling off of Canadian pharma manufacturing, Reagan and Mulroney singing "Irish Eyes Are Smiling", etc. Canada could not rely on the US to buy exports of vaccines.

PoignardAzur 5y ago
Hence the saying, "Never go into a well if all you have is american rope." I'm really hoping Europe doesn't forget that now that Biden is in office.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  Yeah I'm hoping Canada maintains some memory here, too. Biden kept in place Trump's vaccine export restrictions. But Trudeau and Biden have a better personal relationship, so we've gotten a bit of charity dusting from them. 1.5M (like... a week's supply) AZ that they couldn't use and was expiring, from a factory that it turned out had quality control issues... Hooray!
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    I'm surprised at how submissive Trudeau was with the Trump administration. For the C-Series plane, he did absolutely nothing for the industry and immediately bowed down to Trump. Engineering shipped to France and manufacturing to Alabama. Same thing with other tariffs and NAFTA negotiations. And now Canadians are surprised he wouldn't fight or invest in a domestic pharma industry?
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      I am not sure what you think Trudeau could have done in any of those cases. David & Goliath makes for a nice story, but is ... fiction. And in the case of pharma, you don't just create pharma manufacturing overnight, it takes years. During the aluminum & steel trade wars Canada did counter with a series of fairly aggressive targeted tariffs. Those were lifted when the US lifted the tariffs: https://canoe.com/news/national/canadian-retaliatory-tariffs-on-u-s-bourbon-lifted-as-u-s-kills-steel-aluminum-penalties https://canoe.com/news/national/canadian-retaliatory-tariffs... "The Canadian tariffs were carefully selected to both match the dollar value of the tariffs Canadian companies were paying to the U.S., as well as to target popular products in states of prominent Republican lawmakers or swing states where voters might voice their displeasure." Same approach the EU took. Don't punish all Americans, target Republican districts. (Not a Trudeau voter, BTW.)

foolfoolz 5y ago

it’s simply money. the u. s. government paid for local vaccine companies to create it so u. s. gets first shot at supply and rights to buy more. there is no vaccine developed within the EU. UK made a vaccine and are doing well. the EU are 2nd tier customers compared to UK/US

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GekkePrutser 5y ago
Pfizer's vaccine was developed by BioNtech in Germany. J&J's is from the Netherlands. AstraZeneca is UK/Swedish. Plenty of development going on in the EU. They just weren't very smart with their delivery contracts (like the 'best effort' clause with AstraZeneca).
- Quarrel 5y ago
  AZs is Uni of Oxford for development. AZ weren't even in the vaccination business before this. Obviously they can conduct the trials and organise the manufacturing though, but that was their role here.

jsnell 5y ago

The EU countries manufactured a similar number of doses as the US (110M Vs 160M at the end of Q1). The difference is that the US effectively prevented vaccine exports, while the other big producers (EU, China, India) exported roughly half their production

lm28469 5y ago

Most of the rest of the world doesn't have the capabilities to come up with a vaccine by themselves.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
The "rest of the world" created the vaccines that Americans are using, other than Moderna.
- lm28469 5y ago
  Out of the ~200 countries in the world how many have the capabilities to invent and produce a vaccine ? It's a fact, the vast majority of the world cannot come up with a vaccine by themselves, how's that even controversial ?
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    TFA was about Europe. Europe is where the bulk of the vaccines were invented. And the great-grandparent comment and others seem to not get it. The US is successful in its vaccination programme because of aggressive protectionism, not because of some superior technological know-how. Let me spell that out for you: the country that traipsed around the world for the last 40 years preaching free trade and laissez faire economics refuses to participate in a free market of vaccines, and has left all its trading partners high and dry. And the IP behind those vaccines did not come from the United States.

rsynnott 5y ago

The bulk of US vaccinations (and EU vaccinations, now) are with Pfizer-Biontec. Biontec which didn't accept development money from the US government, but did from the German government, so I'm not sure how relevant "warp speed" was there, really. The EU's vaccine woes are down to a combination of being one of two large producers (other is India) not to restrict export of vaccines and precursors (until recently, the EU had exported more doses than it had administered), and the AZ disaster. As of end of Q1 AZ was short 70 million doses for Europe; by end of Q2 based on its own predictions it'll be short around 220 million in total. Now the EU _could_ have gone all in on Pfizer-Biontec (and Curevac), and poured all the money into mRNA production. But that would have seemed like a pretty bizarre move 6 months ago, when there was a lot of uncertainty over how mRNA manufacture would go.