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I love that you are considering things on that scope but there are still many high trust areas in the US. Small towns that are culturally and ethnically homogen

I love that you are considering things on that scope but there are still many high trust areas in the US. Small towns that are culturally and ethnically homogenous with fewer transients are almost always high trust. It's pointless to steal someone's car in a town of 30 families. everyone would know exactly where it went. You also know exactly who you are doing harm to so your sense of sympathy kicks in making you less likely to do it. These tight knit low population towns seem to naturally create a high-trust honor culture. Small towns have a higher level of social integration so wronging someone creates repercussions that flow back to the perpetrator through every one of their social bonds.

giantg2 6y ago
That might be true of the local government. Just ask them how feel about the Feds...
- betterunix2 6y ago
  The irony is that corruption and abuse of power is far worse at the local level...
  - giantg2 6y ago
    In the small tight knit towns? I have seen some, but in my experience usually the occurrence goes up as the size of the town goes up. Rumors of any kind can spread rapidly in small towns. That can come back to bite the people (and their family) doing it.
    - betterunix2 6y ago
      In my experience, corruption is worse in tight-knit communities, but because the community is so small it winds up having a tiny impact / nobody cares. You can see an example right now in the Matt Gaetz case -- he is under investigation only because a corrupt county tax collector had been under investigation; that tax collector was under investigation because he took taxpayer money and bought a bunch of servers that he planned to use for some cryptocurrency side hustle, and then wound up burning down his office (apparently did not understand wiring and started an electrical fire). To put it another way, had it not been for a fire, the fact that this tax collector was embezzling the county's funds would have gone unnoticed, as would his involvement in the sex trafficking of teenagers (which is where the story with Gaetz starts). People only pay attention when things are happening at a scale they consider worthy of their attention. The reason corruption is less common at the higher levels is that people are focused on higher level officials; meanwhile, the fact that their local officials are breaking this rule or that rule goes unnoticed, unreported, or worse, happens with everyone's full knowledge and just gets shrugged off.
      - giantg2 6y ago
        Gaetz is a US House representative. How is that local corruption or abuse of power? Did he actually use his position, or was it just that he committed a private crime while in power? Also you mention a county tax collector. I wouldn't consider that a tight knit small town. I think there is a lot more corruption at a county level than a small town (from what I've seen). I sort of get your point about more eyes watching someone the higher they go. Some of it is also the position of those watchers and their opportunities. In many small towns, people know a pot about you and you have plenty of nosy (for lack of a better term) neighbors. Arguably, they make for better watchers.
        betterunix2 6y ago
        Not continuing the argument, just wanted to point out the the reason I mentioned Gaetz is that the whole investigation into him started with the investigation into a corrupt local official, not that I was calling him a local politician (he obviously is not).
        giantg2 6y ago
        But it was also a county official, not a local official...
        betterunix2 6y ago
        Is there a meaningful distinction? I have lived in four states, in everything from a huge city to a small town, and in every case "county" officials were as local as politicians can be (in NYC the county officials i.e. borough president and staff are actually less powerful than the mayor, but obviously that is the exception). Personally I divide the US system into three levels, federal, state, and local, with "local" including all county offices. Is there a reason to view things differently?
        giantg2 6y ago
        "...and in every case "county" officials were as local as politicians can be" I would be interested to learn more about this. I have also live in multiple states and this doesn't sound like any of them. Municipalities always have some form of one of the following: mayors, councils, school boards, constables/police, magistrates, etc. "Is there a reason to view things differently?" Yeah. I see way more corruption at the county level than the local level. Most of the circumstances and scenarios I laid out in previous comments would not apply to county level officials, nor even to large municipalities. I was strictly speaking about small towns. The most important part is how information is gathered and spread. Small towns are notorious for information being found out and spreading rapidly. That oversight would not be the same in other settings. These mechanisms don't exist at the county level. They are far enough removed from their constituents that they can operate without the same watchful eyes.
true_religion 6y ago
It’s pointless to steal a car and keep it in town, but small towns still have petty theft. Everyone from a small town has a tale of “that family of thieves” who you know to watch when they come in your store. Sometimes they are legit thieves, sometimes it’s just bias.
akiselev 6y ago
> I love that you are considering things on that scope but there are still many high trust areas in the US. Small towns that are culturally and ethnically homogenous with fewer transients are almost always high trust. Some places are higher trust than others but the developed world is based exclusively on a high level of trust. An actual low trust society is so starkly different from what most of us on HN are used: it practically enforces a feudal, subsistence farming society. Living in the US, I don't remember the last time I had to show my receipt at the fast food counter or show any sort of identification when picking up food that I had paid for online. I've never once paid for a major/emergency medical operation or auto repair ahead of time. Hell, I left the dealership with my last car a full week before they received the check from my bank (in the Seattle area, so definitely not a small town). I don't think anyone has ever really verified my income or finances beyond a cursory credit check and some PDF that could be easily faked by anyone with a little computer literacy. Most mortgages are paid back over thirty years! In my old country, most people don't fully trust that the currency will even last that long. The systems reinforcing social behavior in larger groups are more complicated and easier to game, but they are definitely still part of a system based on high levels of trust.

giantg2 6y ago

That might be true of the local government. Just ask them how feel about the Feds...

betterunix2 6y ago
The irony is that corruption and abuse of power is far worse at the local level...
- giantg2 6y ago
  In the small tight knit towns? I have seen some, but in my experience usually the occurrence goes up as the size of the town goes up. Rumors of any kind can spread rapidly in small towns. That can come back to bite the people (and their family) doing it.
  - betterunix2 6y ago
    In my experience, corruption is worse in tight-knit communities, but because the community is so small it winds up having a tiny impact / nobody cares. You can see an example right now in the Matt Gaetz case -- he is under investigation only because a corrupt county tax collector had been under investigation; that tax collector was under investigation because he took taxpayer money and bought a bunch of servers that he planned to use for some cryptocurrency side hustle, and then wound up burning down his office (apparently did not understand wiring and started an electrical fire). To put it another way, had it not been for a fire, the fact that this tax collector was embezzling the county's funds would have gone unnoticed, as would his involvement in the sex trafficking of teenagers (which is where the story with Gaetz starts). People only pay attention when things are happening at a scale they consider worthy of their attention. The reason corruption is less common at the higher levels is that people are focused on higher level officials; meanwhile, the fact that their local officials are breaking this rule or that rule goes unnoticed, unreported, or worse, happens with everyone's full knowledge and just gets shrugged off.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      Gaetz is a US House representative. How is that local corruption or abuse of power? Did he actually use his position, or was it just that he committed a private crime while in power? Also you mention a county tax collector. I wouldn't consider that a tight knit small town. I think there is a lot more corruption at a county level than a small town (from what I've seen). I sort of get your point about more eyes watching someone the higher they go. Some of it is also the position of those watchers and their opportunities. In many small towns, people know a pot about you and you have plenty of nosy (for lack of a better term) neighbors. Arguably, they make for better watchers.
      - betterunix2 6y ago
        Not continuing the argument, just wanted to point out the the reason I mentioned Gaetz is that the whole investigation into him started with the investigation into a corrupt local official, not that I was calling him a local politician (he obviously is not).
        giantg2 6y ago
        But it was also a county official, not a local official...
        betterunix2 6y ago
        Is there a meaningful distinction? I have lived in four states, in everything from a huge city to a small town, and in every case "county" officials were as local as politicians can be (in NYC the county officials i.e. borough president and staff are actually less powerful than the mayor, but obviously that is the exception). Personally I divide the US system into three levels, federal, state, and local, with "local" including all county offices. Is there a reason to view things differently?
        giantg2 6y ago
        "...and in every case "county" officials were as local as politicians can be" I would be interested to learn more about this. I have also live in multiple states and this doesn't sound like any of them. Municipalities always have some form of one of the following: mayors, councils, school boards, constables/police, magistrates, etc. "Is there a reason to view things differently?" Yeah. I see way more corruption at the county level than the local level. Most of the circumstances and scenarios I laid out in previous comments would not apply to county level officials, nor even to large municipalities. I was strictly speaking about small towns. The most important part is how information is gathered and spread. Small towns are notorious for information being found out and spreading rapidly. That oversight would not be the same in other settings. These mechanisms don't exist at the county level. They are far enough removed from their constituents that they can operate without the same watchful eyes.

true_religion 6y ago

It’s pointless to steal a car and keep it in town, but small towns still have petty theft. Everyone from a small town has a tale of “that family of thieves” who you know to watch when they come in your store. Sometimes they are legit thieves, sometimes it’s just bias.

akiselev 6y ago

> I love that you are considering things on that scope but there are still many high trust areas in the US. Small towns that are culturally and ethnically homogenous with fewer transients are almost always high trust. Some places are higher trust than others but the developed world is based exclusively on a high level of trust. An actual low trust society is so starkly different from what most of us on HN are used: it practically enforces a feudal, subsistence farming society. Living in the US, I don't remember the last time I had to show my receipt at the fast food counter or show any sort of identification when picking up food that I had paid for online. I've never once paid for a major/emergency medical operation or auto repair ahead of time. Hell, I left the dealership with my last car a full week before they received the check from my bank (in the Seattle area, so definitely not a small town). I don't think anyone has ever really verified my income or finances beyond a cursory credit check and some PDF that could be easily faked by anyone with a little computer literacy. Most mortgages are paid back over thirty years! In my old country, most people don't fully trust that the currency will even last that long. The systems reinforcing social behavior in larger groups are more complicated and easier to game, but they are definitely still part of a system based on high levels of trust.