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I kind of hate the way Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act. Also, I'll wait for an external audit of whet

I kind of hate the way Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act. Also, I'll wait for an external audit of whether they're paying all the relevant local taxes before I would consider giving them credit for these "investments" in local infrastructure they're making.

tamcap 5y ago
NC just announced they will give Apple close to a $1B tax break... (granted, over up to 30 years)
- OliverJones 5y ago
  Arrgh ... never give a sucker politician an even break. RTP is a fine place to put this project, good enough in fact that the state doesn't have to bribe them to do it. This tax-break-if-you-locate-here thing is a longstanding scam against politicians by companies. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/corporate-tax-breaks-can-backfire-new-york-city-just-found-n971761 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/corporate-tax... These tax incentives should be structured as follows: 1. Do your payroll and pay your payroll taxes (FICA, Federal and State unemployment, whatever). 2. Submit your payroll tax receipts to the state incentive operation. 3. Get a rebate of some percentage of that payroll tax. In other words, no tax-break payments until people get actually paid. This incentivizes the company to do what the state wants: employ people in good jobs. If the company gets a "better offer" from some other place and moves, then the state doesn't get completely screwed over.
gogopuppygogo 5y ago
I’ll wait to see the halo effect of high paying tech jobs in a community. Any community with half a functioning government should give tax breaks to get these kinds of jobs from such a reputable company.
- delfinom 5y ago
  >I’ll wait to see the halo effect of high paying tech jobs in a community. Increased homelessness from rapid gentrification
  - gruez 5y ago
    Seems like you can't win. If you stay in bay area you get accused of concentrating wealth in the bay area and not spreading it. If you move to other areas you get accused of gentrifying the area and pushing poor people out.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Seems like everyone needs to come up with new solutions to this dilemma.
  - mrits 5y ago
    What you are saying is not possible at Apple with quotas in their hiring process.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> hate the way Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act Why do you think domestic investment is so economically useless that it must be a charitable act? Cupertino is announcing spend. Spending here is better for people here, ceteris paribus, than spending there. If they announced $430bn in new Southeast Asian contracts, there would be a twin top comment lamenting Apple's lack of domestic spending.
- nanny 5y ago
  >Why do you think domestic investment is so economically useless GP never implied that it was "useless" at all. Your question (to use some more Latin) is a total non-sequitur. >there would be a twin top comment lamenting Apple's lack of domestic spending. Yes, different people have different opinions.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > GP never implied that it was "useless" at all The announcement uses the word investment 17 times. Reading that as a charity pitch requires a few logical leaps. Companies announce foreign direct investment all the time. Nobody thinks they're trying to look like a charity.
    - anon_tor_12345 5y ago
      the subtitle of the article is >The accelerated commitment will fund a new North Carolina campus and *job-creating investments* in innovative fields like silicon engineering and 5G technology other pull quotes from the article >Apple is doubling down on our commitment to US innovation and manufacturing with a generational investment reaching *communities across all 50 states* >Apple is the largest taxpayer in the US and has paid almost $45 billion in domestic corporate income taxes over the past five years alone. > designed to prepare students for careers in hardware engineering and silicon chip design — to engineering programs at *Historically Black Colleges and Universities* across the country. >bringing *clean energy and high-paying jobs to local communities across the country*.
gher-shyu3i 5y ago
Taxes will be payed purely by virtue of hiring the 20,000 employees they want, which will stimulate the economy. Let's not dumb down the conversation by claiming that companies lowering their tax expenditure is somehow bad. Tax breaks stimulate innovation and investments.
temp8964 5y ago
Why investments should be like charitable act? Investments are suppose to be win-win, because they are investments, not handing out money ... Also, it is a very low level misconception that paying local taxes is how you contributing to the local community. No. Investing is already contributing to the local community. The business will build campus there, and hire people there, and also increase other local businesses surround the campus. And those people work for them pay income taxes there and also pay consumer taxes there. Every local government understand these, that's why they want to attract investments and give their tax breaks, because investments alone bring benefits to the local community. It would be extremely stupid for any local government to say: Hey we don't you invest hundred millions in our community, unless you pay full taxes. Lol.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nix23 5y ago
  >>Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act. Phrases....
- pydry 5y ago
  >Why investments should be like charitable act? That's the point. It isn't. The OP was asking why it's therefore being sold as one.
- MAGZine 5y ago
  You've just described trickle down economics but for society. Companies are more than welcome to make themselves at home iff they pay their dues, and should not be welcome if they don't.
  - throwaway2037 5y ago
    This comment touches a personal nerve with me. I am not against it, but I have seen it so many times traveling in developing countries in South Asia and Southeast Asia. When (South) Korean and Japanese companies invest in a developing economy, it is with head, heart, and wallet. They go 100%. How many times have a seen Korean or Japanese business people on a local flight study local language from a book or try to practice local language with staff? Too many to count! I makes me proud, and I am neither Korea nor Japanese. This is how it should be. And, (for the most part), they are welcomed by communities. To be fair: I feel the same about Volkswagon's recent commitment to Rwanda to build their first plant in Africa. I am suspicious of UK/US/AUS/China firms that show up with the "resource extraction" mindset. Five or ten years later, there are terrible environment consequences or social unrest. Almost never, do I see that with (South) Korean or Japanese firms. (Yes, I have seen it first hand in SA/SEA developing nations.)
geodel 5y ago
Well that's the way everyone is doing. When individuals eating some good food nearby call it "supporting local African-american business". Why wouldn't Apple or any other company make a virtue out of necessity. > I'll wait for an external audit of whether they're paying all the relevant .. They will be paying minimum legal taxes possible not maximum possible. If this is something one need to feel outraged they can start early and not wait for reports/audits.
tracer4201 5y ago
I’m curious if you could quote what exactly in this news is written as if it’s a charitable investment on part of Apple. If this announcement was in India or China, folks would be grabbing pitchforks that Apple is sending jobs overseas. So they’re bring net new tech jobs here, and your response feels like “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”
JKCalhoun 5y ago
I don't know, with so much of American business capital seemingly having gone to Asia in the past several decades, it is rather charitable to be investing in the U.S. I mean, I wish it were not, I wish it were normal for U.S. business to invest in the U.S., but here we are.
dev_tty01 5y ago
Please indicate the phrases that imply a "great charitable act." I see normal, straight-forward corporate press release speak. If Intel or Google were making a similar announcement it would sound quite like this one. They are making significant investment. Would you "give them credit" if they were not making the investments?
- cromka 5y ago
  I read it and also don't see any notion of charity. Op is really making it sound like something it clearly isn't.
- bhk 5y ago
  For starters, they use the word "contribution" several times, which is a pretty weasely way of describing spending money on yourself.
zitterbewegung 5y ago
How many people did Apple have to hire to make the new Apple campus? You can directly see the impact that had. Compare that to Amazon or Foxconn. At least they actually seem to hold a large majority of their promise.
fullshark 5y ago
Well that's the reality of our economy in 2021. A tech behemoth coming to your town and adding jobs + the human capital + tax base that comes with it can be transformative, and there's few other options for localized economic growth sadly.
alexfromapex 5y ago
I don’t like how the local government is courting these businesses. It just reeks of corruption when they’re getting special tax breaks and treatment.

tamcap 5y ago

NC just announced they will give Apple close to a $1B tax break... (granted, over up to 30 years)

OliverJones 5y ago
Arrgh ... never give a sucker politician an even break. RTP is a fine place to put this project, good enough in fact that the state doesn't have to bribe them to do it. This tax-break-if-you-locate-here thing is a longstanding scam against politicians by companies. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/corporate-tax-breaks-can-backfire-new-york-city-just-found-n971761 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/corporate-tax... These tax incentives should be structured as follows: 1. Do your payroll and pay your payroll taxes (FICA, Federal and State unemployment, whatever). 2. Submit your payroll tax receipts to the state incentive operation. 3. Get a rebate of some percentage of that payroll tax. In other words, no tax-break payments until people get actually paid. This incentivizes the company to do what the state wants: employ people in good jobs. If the company gets a "better offer" from some other place and moves, then the state doesn't get completely screwed over.

gogopuppygogo 5y ago

I’ll wait to see the halo effect of high paying tech jobs in a community. Any community with half a functioning government should give tax breaks to get these kinds of jobs from such a reputable company.

delfinom 5y ago
>I’ll wait to see the halo effect of high paying tech jobs in a community. Increased homelessness from rapid gentrification
- gruez 5y ago
  Seems like you can't win. If you stay in bay area you get accused of concentrating wealth in the bay area and not spreading it. If you move to other areas you get accused of gentrifying the area and pushing poor people out.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Seems like everyone needs to come up with new solutions to this dilemma.
- mrits 5y ago
  What you are saying is not possible at Apple with quotas in their hiring process.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> hate the way Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act Why do you think domestic investment is so economically useless that it must be a charitable act? Cupertino is announcing spend. Spending here is better for people here, ceteris paribus, than spending there. If they announced $430bn in new Southeast Asian contracts, there would be a twin top comment lamenting Apple's lack of domestic spending.

nanny 5y ago
>Why do you think domestic investment is so economically useless GP never implied that it was "useless" at all. Your question (to use some more Latin) is a total non-sequitur. >there would be a twin top comment lamenting Apple's lack of domestic spending. Yes, different people have different opinions.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > GP never implied that it was "useless" at all The announcement uses the word investment 17 times. Reading that as a charity pitch requires a few logical leaps. Companies announce foreign direct investment all the time. Nobody thinks they're trying to look like a charity.
  - anon_tor_12345 5y ago
    the subtitle of the article is >The accelerated commitment will fund a new North Carolina campus and *job-creating investments* in innovative fields like silicon engineering and 5G technology other pull quotes from the article >Apple is doubling down on our commitment to US innovation and manufacturing with a generational investment reaching *communities across all 50 states* >Apple is the largest taxpayer in the US and has paid almost $45 billion in domestic corporate income taxes over the past five years alone. > designed to prepare students for careers in hardware engineering and silicon chip design — to engineering programs at *Historically Black Colleges and Universities* across the country. >bringing *clean energy and high-paying jobs to local communities across the country*.

gher-shyu3i 5y ago

Taxes will be payed purely by virtue of hiring the 20,000 employees they want, which will stimulate the economy. Let's not dumb down the conversation by claiming that companies lowering their tax expenditure is somehow bad. Tax breaks stimulate innovation and investments.

temp8964 5y ago

Why investments should be like charitable act? Investments are suppose to be win-win, because they are investments, not handing out money ... Also, it is a very low level misconception that paying local taxes is how you contributing to the local community. No. Investing is already contributing to the local community. The business will build campus there, and hire people there, and also increase other local businesses surround the campus. And those people work for them pay income taxes there and also pay consumer taxes there. Every local government understand these, that's why they want to attract investments and give their tax breaks, because investments alone bring benefits to the local community. It would be extremely stupid for any local government to say: Hey we don't you invest hundred millions in our community, unless you pay full taxes. Lol.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nix23 5y ago
>>Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act. Phrases....
pydry 5y ago
>Why investments should be like charitable act? That's the point. It isn't. The OP was asking why it's therefore being sold as one.
MAGZine 5y ago
You've just described trickle down economics but for society. Companies are more than welcome to make themselves at home iff they pay their dues, and should not be welcome if they don't.
- throwaway2037 5y ago
  This comment touches a personal nerve with me. I am not against it, but I have seen it so many times traveling in developing countries in South Asia and Southeast Asia. When (South) Korean and Japanese companies invest in a developing economy, it is with head, heart, and wallet. They go 100%. How many times have a seen Korean or Japanese business people on a local flight study local language from a book or try to practice local language with staff? Too many to count! I makes me proud, and I am neither Korea nor Japanese. This is how it should be. And, (for the most part), they are welcomed by communities. To be fair: I feel the same about Volkswagon's recent commitment to Rwanda to build their first plant in Africa. I am suspicious of UK/US/AUS/China firms that show up with the "resource extraction" mindset. Five or ten years later, there are terrible environment consequences or social unrest. Almost never, do I see that with (South) Korean or Japanese firms. (Yes, I have seen it first hand in SA/SEA developing nations.)

geodel 5y ago

Well that's the way everyone is doing. When individuals eating some good food nearby call it "supporting local African-american business". Why wouldn't Apple or any other company make a virtue out of necessity. > I'll wait for an external audit of whether they're paying all the relevant .. They will be paying minimum legal taxes possible not maximum possible. If this is something one need to feel outraged they can start early and not wait for reports/audits.

tracer4201 5y ago

I’m curious if you could quote what exactly in this news is written as if it’s a charitable investment on part of Apple. If this announcement was in India or China, folks would be grabbing pitchforks that Apple is sending jobs overseas. So they’re bring net new tech jobs here, and your response feels like “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”

JKCalhoun 5y ago

I don't know, with so much of American business capital seemingly having gone to Asia in the past several decades, it is rather charitable to be investing in the U.S. I mean, I wish it were not, I wish it were normal for U.S. business to invest in the U.S., but here we are.

dev_tty01 5y ago

Please indicate the phrases that imply a "great charitable act." I see normal, straight-forward corporate press release speak. If Intel or Google were making a similar announcement it would sound quite like this one. They are making significant investment. Would you "give them credit" if they were not making the investments?

cromka 5y ago
I read it and also don't see any notion of charity. Op is really making it sound like something it clearly isn't.
bhk 5y ago
For starters, they use the word "contribution" several times, which is a pretty weasely way of describing spending money on yourself.

zitterbewegung 5y ago

How many people did Apple have to hire to make the new Apple campus? You can directly see the impact that had. Compare that to Amazon or Foxconn. At least they actually seem to hold a large majority of their promise.

fullshark 5y ago

Well that's the reality of our economy in 2021. A tech behemoth coming to your town and adding jobs + the human capital + tax base that comes with it can be transformative, and there's few other options for localized economic growth sadly.

alexfromapex 5y ago

I don’t like how the local government is courting these businesses. It just reeks of corruption when they’re getting special tax breaks and treatment.