6 ms·

Thousands of EVE online players riot over microtransactions

78 points by utoku 15y ago

sp332 15y ago
Live video of the Jita protest: http://en.justin.tv/deamosseraph http://en.justin.tv/deamosseraph It's really quite impressive! Edit: there's another one at Amarr, http://www.justin.tv/dnah_pmip#/w/1381178160/2 http://www.justin.tv/dnah_pmip#/w/1381178160/2 but it's not as big.
- antihero 15y ago
  I wonder if Concorde will destroy their ships and camp whatever station they're around, forcing them to stay in the same place for bloody hours, deprived of resources needed to stay alive.
andrewcooke 15y ago
i don't know much about this, but it seems that they've introduced vanity items at "real world" prices. so you can buy, say, "designer" clothing for several hundred dollars. at the same time, the hardware you use in the game is staying at a much lower level. now obviously they can't charge realistic prices for spaceships, but the resulting contrast seems to be surprising a lot of people. from a non-involved viewpoint it's an interesting take on what "price" might mean in post-scarcity environments.
- bastiat 15y ago
  There are no prices without scarcity.
  - FiddlerClamp 15y ago
    In this case, it's what the market will bear. If people buy $500 designer clothes in EVE, the management will continue to sell them.
    - bastiat 15y ago
      There are NO prices without scarcity.
      - rcxdude 15y ago
        yes, and in this case it's an artificial scarcity. CCP controls access to the items, and thus has complete control over their price and scarcity.
wccrawford 15y ago
You know what the best way to protest a game is? Stop playing for a while and send an email. I know this sounds absurdly little, but look at it this way: If you're out doing other things, you might find something you like and -never come back-. This scares the bejeezus out of game developers who exist solely on the fact that people are addicted. If their playerbase actually went and did other things, they couldn't keep going. So yeah, a few thousand people clogging up the arteries of the system is impressive, but having your numbers drop from 30,000 people at a time to 25,000 at a time is really scary.
- joblessjunkie 15y ago
  Especially when the "protest" generates news, and gets the product name in front of casually interested gamers who might actually sign up for new accounts.
- kevingadd 15y ago
  One of the big problems with 'stop playing' protests is that gamers have to pay for a month of playtime in advance, and in many cases, they pay in 3-12 month intervals to save money. This is the case for World of Warcraft subscriptions, for example - they give you a discount if you pay up front. If you stop playing after you already paid, the company isn't really going to suffer any immediate impact, and any visible dent in their metrics will probably be deferred until they see people not renewing subscriptions. A delay that large will basically kneecap any attempt at drawing attention to players' reaction to a change.
  - cynest 15y ago
    Also, Eve especially has problems with continuous commitments to your alliance. No spaceholding alliance would give up defending their space to protest vanity monocles and the possibility of microtransactions.
    - antihero 15y ago
      Hahaha, this is so fucking telling. I love how in depth Eve is because it makes players mirror real world issues.
Apocryphon 15y ago
Emergent gameplay!
MaxGabriel 15y ago
When I played Runescape, we had similar massive riots over the removal of free trade and the old pvp system (wilderness pking). The pkers were on average decidedly less mature than the average player, so there was really poor communication from them, but also from the company Jagex, who struggled to explain the 'why' behind the changes. Can anyone who plays Eve comment on how the company is responding?
- ajacksified 15y ago
  I'm a (retired) director of one of the larger corps in EVE, and I've been discussing the points of contention with members today. Most of it stems from the fact that those rioting feel the prioritization of the walking-in-stations expansion and the addition "vanity items" is poor judgement. There are bugs, missing features, and new changes that are viewed by the rioters to be of far greater importance than the time spent on this latest update. There's a semi-offical "voice of the riot" here:http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html And CCP's response here: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932
  - ajacksified 15y ago
    And now that you've read that, I'll keep my opinion separate: I think the riots are out of line and unnecessary. CCP does need to do a better job at addressing the complaints (requests are listed here http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/November_2010_Prioritization_Crowdsourcing_(CSM) http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/November_2010_Prioritizati...) and explaining their prioritization... but I think the riots have trouble focusing on the real issue, which is simply communication.
  - protomyth 15y ago
    Going by what CCP said, their internal newsletter really is a collection of position papers not necessarily reflecting the true views of the authors. This is much like internal position papers to a political campaign (argue the other guy's side so we can hone our argument). That is truly something I would not want leaked and could cause some serious damage.
antihero 15y ago
Really, people are getting this raged about shit in an online game? Take to the streets, my friends. Fight for the real world, not an imaginary one.
- dpcan 15y ago
  If your imaginary world is all you have, is it not your real world?
  - pnathan 15y ago
    After a few years working in academia, I have a simple statement: That which pays thy bills is the real world. It can correspond to another statement: that which feeds thy mouth is the real world, too. I can't eat virtual bread. It's not the real world.
    - kevingadd 15y ago
      Funnily enough, there are people who either supplement their living expenses or entirely earn their living expenses by selling EVE currency for real money. The actual number of people who do this is disputed, but it's been a well known fact among EVE players for a long time. So, in a way, their real-world bread is on the line if EVE changes significantly enough to destroy their source of income. It's a weird situation.
    - Unseelie 15y ago
      Sad life if your entire world consists of bare survival. Certianly worth revolt, of course, if your first life is a horror. But to then argue that anything other than that life is not worth struggle is a blatant denial of value of anything above bare survival.
- cowkingdeluxe 15y ago
  You shouldn't shit on what other people do for fun or in their free time. Some people use online games like this to escape their real life, whether its to escape disease, sickness or other less serious things.
dekz 15y ago
> for people not familiar with EVE: Jita is the main trade hub of the game. Since EVE only has one server, that makes Jita the de-facto capital of the game, and it's main system. There are other simmilar (but smaller) trade hubs (Amarr and Rens, among others), and those are seeing protests as well. Those systems have a hard limit to their population, and when it's capped, the gates close. The protests seem to have capped both Amarr and Jita, and are therefore stopping people from entering the picketed systems, slowing down the player-driven market inside them. http://www.ps3trophies.com/forums/pc/63552-eve-online-virtual-jita-protest-over-ccps-microtransaction-system.html http://www.ps3trophies.com/forums/pc/63552-eve-online-virtua...
- Periodic 15y ago
  This has a much bigger impact than canceling your own subscription. It raises the danger that you might impact other players to quit. If I were a new player and I found that the servers were too clogged over protests, I might be inclined not to continue. If I were a more casual player, I might go outside, go play another game, or do something else and find I have better things to do than play Eve every night. This is actually how I quit MMOs in college. When it started to feel like a job when I logged in every evening due to the commitments the game placed on a guild for "serious progression" I stopped logging into avoid it. Then I realized fairly quickly that were many other things I'd rather be doing and I cancelled. Get someone to stop logging in for a week and you could very well lose them.
JonnieCache 15y ago
Virtual riots. Fascinating. SPACE ANARCHY! Are they destroying in-game property by their actions? Or is it just noise? The post talks about the capital 'burning.' All we need now is lulzsec to inject their galleon into the server to take everyone's credits in some kind of hilarious mirroring of the mtgox debacle. Surely the opportunity for nautical/piratical double entendre, and apocalyptic nerd-drama is too much for them to resist? EDIT: do the SA forums still control the eve universe these days?
- sanswork 15y ago
  Just creating noise mostly. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/influence.png http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/influence.png The top left yellow area is SA forums. Below them TEST ALLIANCE PLEASE IGNORE is mostly Reddit.
kylemaxwell 15y ago
And now an email from the CCP CEO has leaked, which ignores the significant problems with the deployment and essentially says that he will not listen to the users (cloaked in some otherwise reasonable language). http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/ http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-...
nocipher 15y ago
I partially believe that CCP will end up being okay after the dust settles just because I have never known of any gaming community to have a truly successful protest. The sad part is that the precedence this sets is antithesis to good customer service.
hootmon 15y ago
Its pretty much cannon now, that F2P invariably leads to P2W (Pay to Win). There has to be an evil MMORPG manual out there that outlines the following steps. 1. Introduce microtransactions, promising they will only be for vanity items. 2. On day one of microtransactions, include more OP gear in the cash shop than vanity items. 3. Start counting profits while a few smart ones leave, but the suckers line up to pay more for less.
hootmon 15y ago
All these stupid protesters are just having a hissy fit that will lead to nothing more than them losing a few hours of profitable game time. Face it losers, the company has you by the balls. You cannot boycott anything without ingame financial ruin. Your only choice is to leave or stay. As long as you stay, the owners own you. This is simply how Free to Play and Cash Shops work. The real money is in OP game changing gear. Every game that has implemented it, the players end up paying many times more than an annual WOW subscription in order to have the best gear and rush to end game.
zemanel 15y ago
i believe also that a lot of players weren't happy with the upcoming Dust514 being Playstation only. Some would like it on other consoles (XBOX) and the rest feels betrayed for playing eve for so long and not being able to play on the PC. Thats it! I'm quitting this game and giving all my ISK away for this 1 Tritanium!!!

78 points by utoku 15y ago

sp332 15y ago

Live video of the Jita protest: http://en.justin.tv/deamosseraph http://en.justin.tv/deamosseraph It's really quite impressive! Edit: there's another one at Amarr, http://www.justin.tv/dnah_pmip#/w/1381178160/2 http://www.justin.tv/dnah_pmip#/w/1381178160/2 but it's not as big.

antihero 15y ago
I wonder if Concorde will destroy their ships and camp whatever station they're around, forcing them to stay in the same place for bloody hours, deprived of resources needed to stay alive.

andrewcooke 15y ago

i don't know much about this, but it seems that they've introduced vanity items at "real world" prices. so you can buy, say, "designer" clothing for several hundred dollars. at the same time, the hardware you use in the game is staying at a much lower level. now obviously they can't charge realistic prices for spaceships, but the resulting contrast seems to be surprising a lot of people. from a non-involved viewpoint it's an interesting take on what "price" might mean in post-scarcity environments.

bastiat 15y ago
There are no prices without scarcity.
- FiddlerClamp 15y ago
  In this case, it's what the market will bear. If people buy $500 designer clothes in EVE, the management will continue to sell them.
  - bastiat 15y ago
    There are NO prices without scarcity.
    - rcxdude 15y ago
      yes, and in this case it's an artificial scarcity. CCP controls access to the items, and thus has complete control over their price and scarcity.

wccrawford 15y ago

You know what the best way to protest a game is? Stop playing for a while and send an email. I know this sounds absurdly little, but look at it this way: If you're out doing other things, you might find something you like and -never come back-. This scares the bejeezus out of game developers who exist solely on the fact that people are addicted. If their playerbase actually went and did other things, they couldn't keep going. So yeah, a few thousand people clogging up the arteries of the system is impressive, but having your numbers drop from 30,000 people at a time to 25,000 at a time is really scary.

joblessjunkie 15y ago
Especially when the "protest" generates news, and gets the product name in front of casually interested gamers who might actually sign up for new accounts.
kevingadd 15y ago
One of the big problems with 'stop playing' protests is that gamers have to pay for a month of playtime in advance, and in many cases, they pay in 3-12 month intervals to save money. This is the case for World of Warcraft subscriptions, for example - they give you a discount if you pay up front. If you stop playing after you already paid, the company isn't really going to suffer any immediate impact, and any visible dent in their metrics will probably be deferred until they see people not renewing subscriptions. A delay that large will basically kneecap any attempt at drawing attention to players' reaction to a change.
- cynest 15y ago
  Also, Eve especially has problems with continuous commitments to your alliance. No spaceholding alliance would give up defending their space to protest vanity monocles and the possibility of microtransactions.
  - antihero 15y ago
    Hahaha, this is so fucking telling. I love how in depth Eve is because it makes players mirror real world issues.

Apocryphon 15y ago

Emergent gameplay!

MaxGabriel 15y ago

When I played Runescape, we had similar massive riots over the removal of free trade and the old pvp system (wilderness pking). The pkers were on average decidedly less mature than the average player, so there was really poor communication from them, but also from the company Jagex, who struggled to explain the 'why' behind the changes. Can anyone who plays Eve comment on how the company is responding?

ajacksified 15y ago
I'm a (retired) director of one of the larger corps in EVE, and I've been discussing the points of contention with members today. Most of it stems from the fact that those rioting feel the prioritization of the walking-in-stations expansion and the addition "vanity items" is poor judgement. There are bugs, missing features, and new changes that are viewed by the rioters to be of far greater importance than the time spent on this latest update. There's a semi-offical "voice of the riot" here:http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html And CCP's response here: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932 http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932
- ajacksified 15y ago
  And now that you've read that, I'll keep my opinion separate: I think the riots are out of line and unnecessary. CCP does need to do a better job at addressing the complaints (requests are listed here http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/November_2010_Prioritization_Crowdsourcing_(CSM) http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/November_2010_Prioritizati...) and explaining their prioritization... but I think the riots have trouble focusing on the real issue, which is simply communication.
- protomyth 15y ago
  Going by what CCP said, their internal newsletter really is a collection of position papers not necessarily reflecting the true views of the authors. This is much like internal position papers to a political campaign (argue the other guy's side so we can hone our argument). That is truly something I would not want leaked and could cause some serious damage.

antihero 15y ago

Really, people are getting this raged about shit in an online game? Take to the streets, my friends. Fight for the real world, not an imaginary one.

dpcan 15y ago
If your imaginary world is all you have, is it not your real world?
- pnathan 15y ago
  After a few years working in academia, I have a simple statement: That which pays thy bills is the real world. It can correspond to another statement: that which feeds thy mouth is the real world, too. I can't eat virtual bread. It's not the real world.
  - kevingadd 15y ago
    Funnily enough, there are people who either supplement their living expenses or entirely earn their living expenses by selling EVE currency for real money. The actual number of people who do this is disputed, but it's been a well known fact among EVE players for a long time. So, in a way, their real-world bread is on the line if EVE changes significantly enough to destroy their source of income. It's a weird situation.
  - Unseelie 15y ago
    Sad life if your entire world consists of bare survival. Certianly worth revolt, of course, if your first life is a horror. But to then argue that anything other than that life is not worth struggle is a blatant denial of value of anything above bare survival.
cowkingdeluxe 15y ago
You shouldn't shit on what other people do for fun or in their free time. Some people use online games like this to escape their real life, whether its to escape disease, sickness or other less serious things.

dekz 15y ago

> for people not familiar with EVE: Jita is the main trade hub of the game. Since EVE only has one server, that makes Jita the de-facto capital of the game, and it's main system. There are other simmilar (but smaller) trade hubs (Amarr and Rens, among others), and those are seeing protests as well. Those systems have a hard limit to their population, and when it's capped, the gates close. The protests seem to have capped both Amarr and Jita, and are therefore stopping people from entering the picketed systems, slowing down the player-driven market inside them. http://www.ps3trophies.com/forums/pc/63552-eve-online-virtual-jita-protest-over-ccps-microtransaction-system.html http://www.ps3trophies.com/forums/pc/63552-eve-online-virtua...

Periodic 15y ago
This has a much bigger impact than canceling your own subscription. It raises the danger that you might impact other players to quit. If I were a new player and I found that the servers were too clogged over protests, I might be inclined not to continue. If I were a more casual player, I might go outside, go play another game, or do something else and find I have better things to do than play Eve every night. This is actually how I quit MMOs in college. When it started to feel like a job when I logged in every evening due to the commitments the game placed on a guild for "serious progression" I stopped logging into avoid it. Then I realized fairly quickly that were many other things I'd rather be doing and I cancelled. Get someone to stop logging in for a week and you could very well lose them.

JonnieCache 15y ago

Virtual riots. Fascinating. SPACE ANARCHY! Are they destroying in-game property by their actions? Or is it just noise? The post talks about the capital 'burning.' All we need now is lulzsec to inject their galleon into the server to take everyone's credits in some kind of hilarious mirroring of the mtgox debacle. Surely the opportunity for nautical/piratical double entendre, and apocalyptic nerd-drama is too much for them to resist? EDIT: do the SA forums still control the eve universe these days?

sanswork 15y ago
Just creating noise mostly. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/influence.png http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/influence.png The top left yellow area is SA forums. Below them TEST ALLIANCE PLEASE IGNORE is mostly Reddit.

kylemaxwell 15y ago

And now an email from the CCP CEO has leaked, which ignores the significant problems with the deployment and essentially says that he will not listen to the users (cloaked in some otherwise reasonable language). http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/ http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-...

nocipher 15y ago

I partially believe that CCP will end up being okay after the dust settles just because I have never known of any gaming community to have a truly successful protest. The sad part is that the precedence this sets is antithesis to good customer service.

hootmon 15y ago

Its pretty much cannon now, that F2P invariably leads to P2W (Pay to Win). There has to be an evil MMORPG manual out there that outlines the following steps. 1. Introduce microtransactions, promising they will only be for vanity items. 2. On day one of microtransactions, include more OP gear in the cash shop than vanity items. 3. Start counting profits while a few smart ones leave, but the suckers line up to pay more for less.

hootmon 15y ago

All these stupid protesters are just having a hissy fit that will lead to nothing more than them losing a few hours of profitable game time. Face it losers, the company has you by the balls. You cannot boycott anything without ingame financial ruin. Your only choice is to leave or stay. As long as you stay, the owners own you. This is simply how Free to Play and Cash Shops work. The real money is in OP game changing gear. Every game that has implemented it, the players end up paying many times more than an annual WOW subscription in order to have the best gear and rush to end game.

zemanel 15y ago

i believe also that a lot of players weren't happy with the upcoming Dust514 being Playstation only. Some would like it on other consoles (XBOX) and the rest feels betrayed for playing eve for so long and not being able to play on the PC. Thats it! I'm quitting this game and giving all my ISK away for this 1 Tritanium!!!