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Have a closer look at those tools, they do everything that I described and are what we are using in the document production process. I'm not copying committee
by rjsw 6y ago
Have a closer look at those tools, they do everything that I described and are what we are using in the document production process.
I'm not copying committee working documents from ISO livelink to somewhere else. If you want to read them then join the working group, Switzerland used to be a Participating Member back in the 90s.
- Rochus 6y ago> I'm not copying committee working documents from ISO livelink to somewhere else Well, then it makes littles sense to refer to these minutes as evidence. From our discussion, I conclude that there is no reason to believe (absent evidence to the contrary) that "STEP (ISO 10303) is moving to use SysML to define the models for the collection of standards", neither as a replacement of nor as an equivalent alternative to EXPRESS. As a user of the standards, I do not care much which tools the working groups internally use to develop the standards.
- rjsw 6y agoSuit yourself, you will be able to get the new editions of ISO 10303-242 and ISO 10303-239 that use SysML in a couple of years. ISO 10303-243 will not provide an EXPRESS schema at all, only JSON.
- Rochus 6y agoJSON seems to me a pretty poor alternative to EXPRESS. Are you sure it's not about using JSON instead of XML analogous to ISO 10303-28?
- rjsw 6y agoThe authors of -243 use the JSON schema as an input to OpenAPI tools to build webservices. The Application Protocol model with definitions of what things mean is in SysML, this will also be included in the package for the standard. A new XML exchange format for models defined in SysML is being defined in ISO 10303-15.
- Rochus 6y agoJust had a look at the new ISO 10303-1:2021 (second edition, replacing the frist edition from 1994) which appeared in March. EXPRESS is still the primary description language and will obviously remain with us for a long time to come. Section 6.3.3 explicates "EXPRESS models provide the basis for all specifications of product information in ISO 10303". SysML is not even mentioned (in contrast to e.g. UML). Section 6.3.6 states "ISO/TS 10303-25 does not map all EXPRESS constructs to the UML meta-model, because that meta-model does not support all the corresponding EXPRESS concepts. The specified mapping is a one-way mapping from EXPRESS into the UML Interchange Meta-model". There is no reason to assume that SysML is more expressive than UML in this regard. ISO 10303-11 was last time confirmed in December 2019. ISO 10303-15 is apparently a technical specification on how to transform SysML XMI to XML Schema (XSD) format.
- rjsw 6y agoA decision was made to have ISO 10303-1e2 just reflect what has been published to date, then start work immediately on ISO 10303-1e3 that will also contain the description of how SysML will be used. The main use case of ISO 10303-15 is to be able to validate XML exchange files in the new format.
- Rochus 6y agoI expect it will take many years until the mentioned technical specifications become regular standards. I would be very surprised to see a third edition of ISO 10303-1 within the next eight to ten years. From what I've seen up to now is that SysML might get a similar position as UML in the todays version. Even if there is a feasible mapping from SysML XMI to EXPRESS, the official description language will still be EXPRESS in future editions of the ISO 10303 series. Fads come and go; we saw this with UML, and we will see this with SysML; SysML is simply not suited to replace EXPRESS, even less than UML. I bet that in seven years at the latest, SysML will be eclipsed by a new fad.
- rjsw 6y agoWell, prepare to be surprised.