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Project Jengo Redux: Cloudflare’s Prior Art Search Bounty Returns

127 points by jgrahamc 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
eastdakota 6y ago
Some of my favorite checks I've ever gotten to sign were paying out the recipients of our first patent troll prior art search bounty. Looking forward to doing it again! https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-project-jengo-saga-how-cloudflare-stood-up-to-a-patent-troll-and-won/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-project-jengo-saga-how-cloud...
cortesoft 6y ago
I thought patents only last 20 years... some of those on the list are older than that. Can you sue for previous violations of now expired patents?
- tttp 6y ago
  A patent is granted to something new, here the goal was to show that the patent is void, because it was already existing before the patent was (wrongly) granted. It doesn't matter if it was invented less or more than 20 years ago, or even that the original invention was patented.
- eypark 6y ago
  You’re correct that patents generally last 20 years from filing. But patent term can be longer when there were processing delays by the patent office. And yes, you can sue on expired patents for past damages (but you can only go back up to six years from the date you sue).
- losvedir 6y ago
  I think you're referring to the "Earliest Potential Priority Date" column, some of which are older than that? But, e.g., Patent 6,954,431 with the priority date of Apr 19, 2000 (i.e. more than 20 years ago), if you click through you'll see has an "adjusted expiration" of Apr 11, 2022. I'm not sure why that is, but looking in the timeline I see that "first worldwide litigation filed" was Apr 13, 2020, i.e. a week shy of 20 years, so I'm guessing they filed while it was still just barely active. And I wonder if that granted a bit more life to the patent, because it now expires two years after that.
johnklos 6y ago
Cloudflare might be doing something that helps others when defending from patent trolls, but that's a side effect. We know what side of history Cloudflare wants to be on - they want to recentralize the Internet and control as much of it as possible. They're decent at marketing themselves as "good guys", but after way too many examples of caring more about money than doing the right thing, we all know what Cloudflare is really about. Nice try, Cloudflare.
- johnklos 6y ago
  No comments to refute what I wrote, but obviously the Cloudflare fanboys are upset. Good! This is obvious propaganda posted by u/jgrahamc, who is the CTO of Cloudflare. They refuse to communicate clearly when asked about the spammers and scammers they host, instead replying with form responses which disingenuously say, "We don't host!" and answer whatever question they feel like making up and answering. They refuse to allow abuse complaints for domains registered through them and/or for which they host DNS. They're a shitty, evil company that clearly cares more about money than about taking down clear and obvious phishing content. There's plenty of proof out there.
  - dang 6y ago
    Yikes, you can't post like this to HN regardless of how strongly you disagree with some person or some company. Please review the rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Fortunately you've posted lots of good comments in the past so this should be easy to fix.
  - elaus 6y ago
    Honestly I just think it has barely anything to do with the topic and is just derailing the discussion. There might be things to criticize about Cloudflare, but that doesn't mean one can't rally behind their efford to fight parent trolls – because that has nothing at all to do with the points you mentioned.
  - intergalplan 6y ago
    I think because it's a bit off-topic, though you're almost certainly right about their business strategy. If that's not what they're up to, then they're sure doing a great job of making it look exactly like it is. If there's not a whiteboard in their offices with "outmaneuver AWS" written at the top and a diagram of their global data-centers and obligatory reverse-proxy use pattern strangling AWS, then there must surely be a similar diagram living in their decision-makers' heads, at least. ... but I'm still giving them more and more business, because they're undercutting other options on price to a comical degree.
linuxftw 6y ago
Maybe it's possible Cloudflare infringed on valid patents.
djyaz1200 6y ago
In general favoring IP rights empowers those with less capital. In general favoring operators over IP holders favors those with more capital. Our economy already does a lot to favor those with more capital so the idea that companies that monetize IP are all trolls/terrorists is troubling. Surely there are some bad actors and they deserve the blowback consequences at work here, but surely some innovators hold valuable patents that big businesses are not respecting.

127 points by jgrahamc 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Some of my favorite checks I've ever gotten to sign were paying out the recipients of our first patent troll prior art search bounty. Looking forward to doing it again! https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-project-jengo-saga-how-cloudflare-stood-up-to-a-patent-troll-and-won/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-project-jengo-saga-how-cloud...

cortesoft 6y ago

I thought patents only last 20 years... some of those on the list are older than that. Can you sue for previous violations of now expired patents?

tttp 6y ago
A patent is granted to something new, here the goal was to show that the patent is void, because it was already existing before the patent was (wrongly) granted. It doesn't matter if it was invented less or more than 20 years ago, or even that the original invention was patented.
eypark 6y ago
You’re correct that patents generally last 20 years from filing. But patent term can be longer when there were processing delays by the patent office. And yes, you can sue on expired patents for past damages (but you can only go back up to six years from the date you sue).
losvedir 6y ago
I think you're referring to the "Earliest Potential Priority Date" column, some of which are older than that? But, e.g., Patent 6,954,431 with the priority date of Apr 19, 2000 (i.e. more than 20 years ago), if you click through you'll see has an "adjusted expiration" of Apr 11, 2022. I'm not sure why that is, but looking in the timeline I see that "first worldwide litigation filed" was Apr 13, 2020, i.e. a week shy of 20 years, so I'm guessing they filed while it was still just barely active. And I wonder if that granted a bit more life to the patent, because it now expires two years after that.

johnklos 6y ago

Cloudflare might be doing something that helps others when defending from patent trolls, but that's a side effect. We know what side of history Cloudflare wants to be on - they want to recentralize the Internet and control as much of it as possible. They're decent at marketing themselves as "good guys", but after way too many examples of caring more about money than doing the right thing, we all know what Cloudflare is really about. Nice try, Cloudflare.

johnklos 6y ago
No comments to refute what I wrote, but obviously the Cloudflare fanboys are upset. Good! This is obvious propaganda posted by u/jgrahamc, who is the CTO of Cloudflare. They refuse to communicate clearly when asked about the spammers and scammers they host, instead replying with form responses which disingenuously say, "We don't host!" and answer whatever question they feel like making up and answering. They refuse to allow abuse complaints for domains registered through them and/or for which they host DNS. They're a shitty, evil company that clearly cares more about money than about taking down clear and obvious phishing content. There's plenty of proof out there.
- dang 6y ago
  Yikes, you can't post like this to HN regardless of how strongly you disagree with some person or some company. Please review the rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Fortunately you've posted lots of good comments in the past so this should be easy to fix.
- elaus 6y ago
  Honestly I just think it has barely anything to do with the topic and is just derailing the discussion. There might be things to criticize about Cloudflare, but that doesn't mean one can't rally behind their efford to fight parent trolls – because that has nothing at all to do with the points you mentioned.
- intergalplan 6y ago
  I think because it's a bit off-topic, though you're almost certainly right about their business strategy. If that's not what they're up to, then they're sure doing a great job of making it look exactly like it is. If there's not a whiteboard in their offices with "outmaneuver AWS" written at the top and a diagram of their global data-centers and obligatory reverse-proxy use pattern strangling AWS, then there must surely be a similar diagram living in their decision-makers' heads, at least. ... but I'm still giving them more and more business, because they're undercutting other options on price to a comical degree.

linuxftw 6y ago

Maybe it's possible Cloudflare infringed on valid patents.

djyaz1200 6y ago

In general favoring IP rights empowers those with less capital. In general favoring operators over IP holders favors those with more capital. Our economy already does a lot to favor those with more capital so the idea that companies that monetize IP are all trolls/terrorists is troubling. Surely there are some bad actors and they deserve the blowback consequences at work here, but surely some innovators hold valuable patents that big businesses are not respecting.