7 ms·

An annoying example which has gotten worse recently is recipes. I generally trawl through 5k words of someone's life story and product promotions to get to the

by pea 5y ago

An annoying example which has gotten worse recently is recipes. I generally trawl through 5k words of someone's life story and product promotions to get to the piece of information I need, and they often rewrite the recipe 5 different times in different levels of detail -- is this because to make the first page rank on Google you need to pad out the SEO? I too always find myself doing site:reddit.com.

tomp 5y ago
a few more that I swear by: site:greatbritishchefs.com site:greatitalianchefs.com site:seriouseats.com WARNING: the last one usually has 2 pages listed for each recipe - the recipe itself, and also a "story" blog post - except that the "story" is also very useful (not "someone's life story" which is basically spam), because it explains the reasoning behind the method, different alternatives and the trade-offs between them, and the experimentation that it took the author to derive it
- vanderZwan 5y ago
  I also have good experience with thespruceeats.com regarding in-depth explanations of food. I have to add that I'm using adblockers pretty heavily so I have no clue how bearable these sites are without it. Anyway, it's pretty easy to turn this into a keyworded bookmark on Firefox for some quick searching: https://duckduckgo.com/lite/?q=%s+(site%3Aseriouseats.com+%7C%7C+site%3Agreatbritishchefs.com+ %7C%7C+site%3Agreatbritishchefs.com+%7C%7C+site%3Athespruceeats.com+%7C%7C+site%3Abbcgoodfood.com)
Mediterraneo10 5y ago
Google page ranking depends on how long people spend on the webpage, so if you have to wade through longform text, it mistakenly assumes that the content is quality. Note that most recipe blogs are fake. Someone wrote the original content long ago. Then, someone else hired a copywriter off a freelancing platform to change the words of the text just enough to avoid copyright violation, then put up a new copycat website loaded with SEO and ads. Look closely and notice how the author’s bio says e.g. "Born and bred in Lousiania and I love to share southern cooking", but the text contains grammatical mistakes typical of Eastern Europeans or Southeast Asians. The ecosystem is already so advanced that new copycat recipe websites are often based on previous copycat recipe websites.
- sjg007 5y ago
  There are a bunch of these all templated exactly the same way. It’s fascinating.
- criddell 5y ago
  > Google page ranking depends on how long people spend on the webpage, so if you have to wade through longform text, it mistakenly assumes that the content is quality. Is this true? I have a hard time believing it because it's a pretty naive assumption. A site that lets me get what I'm after quickly is generally going to be what I want.
  - mortehu 5y ago
    Presumably they are using bounce rates, i.e. how often you visit result N+1 after visiting result N. I hope time spent on site N is not a large factor, because it's so easily gamed.
  - jcfrei 5y ago
    Google analytics is running on lots of pages. Would be pretty surprising if they didn't use the insights they get from there, such as time spent on the site, buttons clicked, how far they scrolled etc.
  - ggggtez 5y ago
    I sincerely doubt it. How many people keep open 50+ tabs, or open a page and walk away? I'm sure that time spent on a page, if it's given any weight, is given barely any. I'm sure returns to search to click a new link is a much higher indicator that the user didn't find what they wanted.
    - BlueTemplar 5y ago
      Google doesn't literally know how long that page is going to be left open in a tab or window. IIRC they do know when you're back to Google trying the next search result ?
  - ThalesX 5y ago
quietbritishjim 5y ago
A recipe is not copyrightable, so if they just directly presented the recipe to you in a convenient format then someone could copy that recipe for their own site (either manually or automatically scaped). By mixing it up annoyingly with a story it becomes copyrighted. If you still have the recipe in a useful format after the story then it would still be possible to manually copy just that part, but at least you've made it harder for someone to scrape it.
mxcrossb 5y ago
I only go to Allrecipes now for exactly this reason. It’s funny, people used to mock that site for the stupid reviews, but what matters can quickly change...
- 0xffff2 5y ago
  Allrecipes is a worthless time sync. The vast majority of recipes on that site are written by amateurs and just not good. It's not worth sifting through recipes on there to find a good one because the odds are so low.
  - indeedmug 5y ago
    Lately I been watching YouTube videos and finding recipes through that. I find that it's important to follow people with a track record of good cooking. It's no different than following authors who write good books. When people condense down their recipes into steps, you don't know how much experimenting they did or if they did at all. So you have to rely on their credibility. I found Josh Weissman to have good recipes. You could also look for recipes by experienced chefs like by Munchies. Also if you have more experience. You can look at a recipe and easily figure out if something is very wrong. Unfortunately, most things on cooking don't tell you how to "debug" recipes. You just cook often and hope you can figure things out.
bena 5y ago
I think part of this is that recipes themselves are not protected under copyright. They fall under the provision of factual information. 1 cup of flour, 2 eggs, 1 cup of milk, 2 tbsp of sugar, mix until smooth is a shitty pancake recipe (I think, it's close), but there aren't many ways to say that that makes it novel. Recipes are essentially instruction on how to build food. Where copyright comes into play for cookbooks and recipe sites are presentation. And that includes the stories. So while the recipe itself doesn't enjoy copyright protection, writing "In the early autumn morning, my grandmother enjoyed making the family the most delicious pancakes, she started by going out to the chicken coop and sticking her whole hand up a chicken's ass to get only the freshest eggs possible..."
melech_ric 5y ago
When I tried this two months ago it was great: https://www.JustTheRecipe.app https://www.JustTheRecipe.app This recipe: https://wildwildwhisk.com/basic-buttermilk-scones/ https://wildwildwhisk.com/basic-buttermilk-scones/ Turns into this: https://www.justtherecipe.app/?url=https://wildwildwhisk.com/basic-buttermilk-scones/ https://www.justtherecipe.app/?url=https://wildwildwhisk.com... I think there are Firefox and Chrome add-ons/extensions that do similar things.
defaultname 5y ago
Many of the recipe sites you're finding are likely "food bloggers", so their interest is in being a personality/virtual cooking companion more than being just a source of a recipe. You have misaligned interests, and to be fair they're probably less interested in your patronage if you just hop to a page to grab a recipe. And of course the verbiage is a lot of long tail keyword inclusion (pandering to Google by talking about your diabetic grandma, etc). EDIT: The whole "I can't stand recipes that have verbiage" diatribe is a bit of a beggars being choosers thing. Personally I pay for America's Test Kitchen and get trustworthy, concise recipes (although there is a narrative about different techniques and options), but most people are too cheap but simultaneously super demanding about the things they get for free.
- Loughla 5y ago
  +1 to that, and especially to America's test kitchen. People complain about blogspam and recycled recipes and being unable to filter through to find quality recipes. They also talk about being willing to pay to find quality. There is, and has been, a very well known, nationally respected organization who does this, for years! Their recipe recommendations are usually good, and the narratives actually ADD to the recipe, by offering alternatives and reasons behind choices made, instead of just telling a nonsense story.
12ian34 5y ago
I prefer to stick to physical recipe books from trusted chefs. Sure, the internet can deliver the breadth and depth, but to wade through this comes not only with the large search cost but also with the risk of a poor recipe... and don't get me started on recipe websites that don't have metric measurements!
thefifthsetpin 5y ago
https://recipe.wtf/ https://recipe.wtf/ It's not for SEO, it's to demonstrate engagement to the advertisers. Scrolling past the markov fluff they give you to read "while you wait for that to come to a boil" counts as engagement.
iptpus 5y ago
https://based.cooking/ https://based.cooking/ https://opensource.cooking/ https://opensource.cooking/ Both are open source recipe sites meant to combat the blogspam and load quickly.

by pea 5y ago

tomp 5y ago

a few more that I swear by: site:greatbritishchefs.com site:greatitalianchefs.com site:seriouseats.com WARNING: the last one usually has 2 pages listed for each recipe - the recipe itself, and also a "story" blog post - except that the "story" is also very useful (not "someone's life story" which is basically spam), because it explains the reasoning behind the method, different alternatives and the trade-offs between them, and the experimentation that it took the author to derive it

vanderZwan 5y ago
I also have good experience with thespruceeats.com regarding in-depth explanations of food. I have to add that I'm using adblockers pretty heavily so I have no clue how bearable these sites are without it. Anyway, it's pretty easy to turn this into a keyworded bookmark on Firefox for some quick searching: https://duckduckgo.com/lite/?q=%s+(site%3Aseriouseats.com+%7C%7C+site%3Agreatbritishchefs.com+ %7C%7C+site%3Agreatbritishchefs.com+%7C%7C+site%3Athespruceeats.com+%7C%7C+site%3Abbcgoodfood.com)

Mediterraneo10 5y ago

Google page ranking depends on how long people spend on the webpage, so if you have to wade through longform text, it mistakenly assumes that the content is quality. Note that most recipe blogs are fake. Someone wrote the original content long ago. Then, someone else hired a copywriter off a freelancing platform to change the words of the text just enough to avoid copyright violation, then put up a new copycat website loaded with SEO and ads. Look closely and notice how the author’s bio says e.g. "Born and bred in Lousiania and I love to share southern cooking", but the text contains grammatical mistakes typical of Eastern Europeans or Southeast Asians. The ecosystem is already so advanced that new copycat recipe websites are often based on previous copycat recipe websites.

sjg007 5y ago
There are a bunch of these all templated exactly the same way. It’s fascinating.
criddell 5y ago
> Google page ranking depends on how long people spend on the webpage, so if you have to wade through longform text, it mistakenly assumes that the content is quality. Is this true? I have a hard time believing it because it's a pretty naive assumption. A site that lets me get what I'm after quickly is generally going to be what I want.
- mortehu 5y ago
  Presumably they are using bounce rates, i.e. how often you visit result N+1 after visiting result N. I hope time spent on site N is not a large factor, because it's so easily gamed.
- jcfrei 5y ago
  Google analytics is running on lots of pages. Would be pretty surprising if they didn't use the insights they get from there, such as time spent on the site, buttons clicked, how far they scrolled etc.
- ggggtez 5y ago
  I sincerely doubt it. How many people keep open 50+ tabs, or open a page and walk away? I'm sure that time spent on a page, if it's given any weight, is given barely any. I'm sure returns to search to click a new link is a much higher indicator that the user didn't find what they wanted.
  - BlueTemplar 5y ago
    Google doesn't literally know how long that page is going to be left open in a tab or window. IIRC they do know when you're back to Google trying the next search result ?
- ThalesX 5y ago

quietbritishjim 5y ago

A recipe is not copyrightable, so if they just directly presented the recipe to you in a convenient format then someone could copy that recipe for their own site (either manually or automatically scaped). By mixing it up annoyingly with a story it becomes copyrighted. If you still have the recipe in a useful format after the story then it would still be possible to manually copy just that part, but at least you've made it harder for someone to scrape it.

mxcrossb 5y ago

I only go to Allrecipes now for exactly this reason. It’s funny, people used to mock that site for the stupid reviews, but what matters can quickly change...

0xffff2 5y ago
Allrecipes is a worthless time sync. The vast majority of recipes on that site are written by amateurs and just not good. It's not worth sifting through recipes on there to find a good one because the odds are so low.
- indeedmug 5y ago
  Lately I been watching YouTube videos and finding recipes through that. I find that it's important to follow people with a track record of good cooking. It's no different than following authors who write good books. When people condense down their recipes into steps, you don't know how much experimenting they did or if they did at all. So you have to rely on their credibility. I found Josh Weissman to have good recipes. You could also look for recipes by experienced chefs like by Munchies. Also if you have more experience. You can look at a recipe and easily figure out if something is very wrong. Unfortunately, most things on cooking don't tell you how to "debug" recipes. You just cook often and hope you can figure things out.

bena 5y ago

I think part of this is that recipes themselves are not protected under copyright. They fall under the provision of factual information. 1 cup of flour, 2 eggs, 1 cup of milk, 2 tbsp of sugar, mix until smooth is a shitty pancake recipe (I think, it's close), but there aren't many ways to say that that makes it novel. Recipes are essentially instruction on how to build food. Where copyright comes into play for cookbooks and recipe sites are presentation. And that includes the stories. So while the recipe itself doesn't enjoy copyright protection, writing "In the early autumn morning, my grandmother enjoyed making the family the most delicious pancakes, she started by going out to the chicken coop and sticking her whole hand up a chicken's ass to get only the freshest eggs possible..."

melech_ric 5y ago

When I tried this two months ago it was great: https://www.JustTheRecipe.app https://www.JustTheRecipe.app This recipe: https://wildwildwhisk.com/basic-buttermilk-scones/ https://wildwildwhisk.com/basic-buttermilk-scones/ Turns into this: https://www.justtherecipe.app/?url=https://wildwildwhisk.com/basic-buttermilk-scones/ https://www.justtherecipe.app/?url=https://wildwildwhisk.com... I think there are Firefox and Chrome add-ons/extensions that do similar things.

defaultname 5y ago

Many of the recipe sites you're finding are likely "food bloggers", so their interest is in being a personality/virtual cooking companion more than being just a source of a recipe. You have misaligned interests, and to be fair they're probably less interested in your patronage if you just hop to a page to grab a recipe. And of course the verbiage is a lot of long tail keyword inclusion (pandering to Google by talking about your diabetic grandma, etc). EDIT: The whole "I can't stand recipes that have verbiage" diatribe is a bit of a beggars being choosers thing. Personally I pay for America's Test Kitchen and get trustworthy, concise recipes (although there is a narrative about different techniques and options), but most people are too cheap but simultaneously super demanding about the things they get for free.

Loughla 5y ago
+1 to that, and especially to America's test kitchen. People complain about blogspam and recycled recipes and being unable to filter through to find quality recipes. They also talk about being willing to pay to find quality. There is, and has been, a very well known, nationally respected organization who does this, for years! Their recipe recommendations are usually good, and the narratives actually ADD to the recipe, by offering alternatives and reasons behind choices made, instead of just telling a nonsense story.

12ian34 5y ago

I prefer to stick to physical recipe books from trusted chefs. Sure, the internet can deliver the breadth and depth, but to wade through this comes not only with the large search cost but also with the risk of a poor recipe... and don't get me started on recipe websites that don't have metric measurements!

thefifthsetpin 5y ago

https://recipe.wtf/ https://recipe.wtf/ It's not for SEO, it's to demonstrate engagement to the advertisers. Scrolling past the markov fluff they give you to read "while you wait for that to come to a boil" counts as engagement.

iptpus 5y ago

https://based.cooking/ https://based.cooking/ https://opensource.cooking/ https://opensource.cooking/ Both are open source recipe sites meant to combat the blogspam and load quickly.