4 ms·

It's something of an aside, and no doubt a losing battle, but I wish we'd stop (ab)using the term "ride-sharing" for services like Uber and Lyft. Ride-sharing

by jfk13 6y ago

It's something of an aside, and no doubt a losing battle, but I wish we'd stop (ab)using the term "ride-sharing" for services like Uber and Lyft. Ride-sharing is when I'm intending to drive somewhere, have spare capacity in my vehicle, and offer that space (at a price, potentially) to other people. A high degree of ride-sharing would almost certainly decrease congestion by making more efficient use of vehicle capacity. Uber and Lyft are essentially app-enabled taxi services. It's not surprising that putting a huge number of extra taxis on the road can increase congestion as drivers congregate in the areas with most potential fares.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Also, proliferation of taxis[0] doesn't immediately change the behavior of people. It takes time for citizens to adjust to improved transport infrastructure and stop using/storing their own cars in the city. Within that lag window, more taxis = more cars. -- [0] - As you say, Uber and Lyft, and their predecessors and successors, are just that - a different flavor of taxi services. Slightly leaner, at the cost of worse guarantees for certain service types where old-school taxis were bound by regulations, but otherwise pretty much the same thing.
- lokedhs 6y ago
  The only thing taxis reduce is the need for parking. Everything else results in more traffic compared to individual driving. If I take my own car to work, the car is only on the road between my house and my office. If I take a taxi, at the very least you'll have to add the distance the taxi drove to pick me up, as well as the distance driven to pick the next customer up. There is no way around that, and any argument that taxi services (whether with actual taxis, or by the driver's personal cars) somehow reduce traffic is complete nonsense. That's not even mentioning the fact that a number of people are now going to take a taxi instead of public transport, further increasing the number of cars.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    I don't mean the case of switching from a personal car to a taxi for daily commute. I mean the case of, "I need my car few times a month to run some errands around the city - and since I already have that car, I may as well drive to work instead of using public transport". Availability and reliability of general transport infrastructure - both mass transit and taxis - will drive the decision here. If one can count on always catching fast transportation for those few errands a month, they can retire their car, and that's one less car on the road every day. This does not scale 1:1 with taxis - on a margin, a single extra taxi constantly on the road can tip the decision for several people, removing several cars from the city during rush hours. I'm a not a traffic planner, so I'm not certain if things play out this way in reality - but it sounds plausible. A different topic is that taxis unfortunately compete with mass transit too much these days. For example, in my hometown of Kraków - known in Poland for having a very good public transit system - the situation in recent years[0] evolved to a point in which, for 2+ people traveling further than a bus or tram will go in 20 minutes, it's cheaper[1] to travel in one of these VC-subsidized app-taxis! Given the economics of mass transit, I worry this is not the kind of competition that will lead to improvements of service - instead, it'll lead to further degradation of the bus and tram networks, in a positive feedback loop. -- [0] - I noticed it around 2019, so it's not a COVID-related phenomenon, though the pandemic did a lot of work to cement it, as well as reversing the ongoing efforts to remove car traffic from the city center. [1] - Unless you're a citizen/regular, and pay a monthly pass. I'm currently neither.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  >[0] - As you say, Uber and Lyft, and their predecessors and successors, are just that - a different flavor of taxi services. Slightly leaner, at the cost of worse guarantees for certain service types where old-school taxis were bound by regulations, but otherwise pretty much the same thing. And yet, prior to Uber and Lyft, I would hesitate to call a taxi for my worst enemy due to all of them smelling like smoke, being old dumpy cars, and having questionable drivers. After Uber/Lyft, I can remotely order a car for my grandparents who don’t speak English and they can get to me in a nice clean car with no issues. Taxis outside of urban cores in a few US cities were a terrible experience prior to Uber/Lyft, they clearly brought something to the table.
gala8y 6y ago
This positively ends conversation. The proper 'ride-sharing' you're talking about is very popular in Germany. On daily basis thousands of people drive few miles to a spot near a highway, etc., 'abandon' their cars and ride together downtown. It's been so for years.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  Aka car-pooling. At least in Canada, car pool lots are quite common, and are used quite heavily.

by jfk13 6y ago

TeMPOraL 6y ago

Also, proliferation of taxis[0] doesn't immediately change the behavior of people. It takes time for citizens to adjust to improved transport infrastructure and stop using/storing their own cars in the city. Within that lag window, more taxis = more cars. -- [0] - As you say, Uber and Lyft, and their predecessors and successors, are just that - a different flavor of taxi services. Slightly leaner, at the cost of worse guarantees for certain service types where old-school taxis were bound by regulations, but otherwise pretty much the same thing.

lokedhs 6y ago
The only thing taxis reduce is the need for parking. Everything else results in more traffic compared to individual driving. If I take my own car to work, the car is only on the road between my house and my office. If I take a taxi, at the very least you'll have to add the distance the taxi drove to pick me up, as well as the distance driven to pick the next customer up. There is no way around that, and any argument that taxi services (whether with actual taxis, or by the driver's personal cars) somehow reduce traffic is complete nonsense. That's not even mentioning the fact that a number of people are now going to take a taxi instead of public transport, further increasing the number of cars.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  I don't mean the case of switching from a personal car to a taxi for daily commute. I mean the case of, "I need my car few times a month to run some errands around the city - and since I already have that car, I may as well drive to work instead of using public transport". Availability and reliability of general transport infrastructure - both mass transit and taxis - will drive the decision here. If one can count on always catching fast transportation for those few errands a month, they can retire their car, and that's one less car on the road every day. This does not scale 1:1 with taxis - on a margin, a single extra taxi constantly on the road can tip the decision for several people, removing several cars from the city during rush hours. I'm a not a traffic planner, so I'm not certain if things play out this way in reality - but it sounds plausible. A different topic is that taxis unfortunately compete with mass transit too much these days. For example, in my hometown of Kraków - known in Poland for having a very good public transit system - the situation in recent years[0] evolved to a point in which, for 2+ people traveling further than a bus or tram will go in 20 minutes, it's cheaper[1] to travel in one of these VC-subsidized app-taxis! Given the economics of mass transit, I worry this is not the kind of competition that will lead to improvements of service - instead, it'll lead to further degradation of the bus and tram networks, in a positive feedback loop. -- [0] - I noticed it around 2019, so it's not a COVID-related phenomenon, though the pandemic did a lot of work to cement it, as well as reversing the ongoing efforts to remove car traffic from the city center. [1] - Unless you're a citizen/regular, and pay a monthly pass. I'm currently neither.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
>[0] - As you say, Uber and Lyft, and their predecessors and successors, are just that - a different flavor of taxi services. Slightly leaner, at the cost of worse guarantees for certain service types where old-school taxis were bound by regulations, but otherwise pretty much the same thing. And yet, prior to Uber and Lyft, I would hesitate to call a taxi for my worst enemy due to all of them smelling like smoke, being old dumpy cars, and having questionable drivers. After Uber/Lyft, I can remotely order a car for my grandparents who don’t speak English and they can get to me in a nice clean car with no issues. Taxis outside of urban cores in a few US cities were a terrible experience prior to Uber/Lyft, they clearly brought something to the table.

gala8y 6y ago

This positively ends conversation. The proper 'ride-sharing' you're talking about is very popular in Germany. On daily basis thousands of people drive few miles to a spot near a highway, etc., 'abandon' their cars and ride together downtown. It's been so for years.

frosted-flakes 6y ago
Aka car-pooling. At least in Canada, car pool lots are quite common, and are used quite heavily.