3 ms·

GP is wrong about the security of PoS. It is slightly less secure in favour of being more energy efficient, however it’s not that much more insecure.

by exdsq 6y ago

potiuper 6y ago
https://etherscan.io/address/0x00000000219ab540356cbb839cbe05303d7705fa https://etherscan.io/address/0x00000000219ab540356cbb839cbe0... shows the current total value staked for ETH2 at about $10B USD (4M ETH); 51% is $5.1B USD (2M ETH) with around 115M ETH in existence. Aave has about 0.6M ETH available to loan out at 0.76% APR (https://app.aave.com/reserve-overview/ETH-0xc02aaa39b223fe8d0a0e5c4f27ead9083c756cc20xb53c1a33016b2dc2ff3653530bff1848a515c8c5 https://app.aave.com/reserve-overview/ETH-0xc02aaa39b223fe8d...) This is about a 0.01% interest rate per hr (8760 compound periods per yr) https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/periodic-interest-rate-calculator.php https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/periodi... Assuming the rest of the (1.4M) ETH to be staked could be obtained by loaning and converting from other staked Aave assets currently totaling at around $7.5B USD for the same rate and same period, then the interest fee for a 1 hr 2M ETH loan is: $5.1B USD * 0.0001 = $5(10)K USD. Over 50 hedge funds have the $6.375B USD or more in assets (https://www.pionline.com/interactive/largest-hedge-fund-managers-2020 https://www.pionline.com/interactive/largest-hedge-fund-mana...) that could provide for Aave's max LTV of 80% to borrow the $5.1B USD of ETH. Alternatively, a PoW attack on ETH assuming NiceHash, which currently only has 7% of the total ETH hash rate available, rates for 1 hr is ~$2M USD (https://www.crypto51.app https://www.crypto51.app note out of date figures). So, relatively the current ETH2 PoS attack cost is around 4 times smaller than the ETH PoW attack cost or an absolute difference of about $1.5M USD, which seems like a drastic difference in cost, but YMMV, especially considering your relationship with Cardano.
- potiuper 6y ago
  Another case considering the requirement that the existing 51% could not be loaned would require just over doubling the outstanding staked assets, which is more than Aave's current $7.5B available to loan, to a total staked ETH2 of $20B USD again assuming no previously controlled stake. But, assuming the same the interest rate, the fee for a 1 hr 4M ETH loan is: $10B USD * 0.0001 = $1M USD. Still, half the amount compared to the PoW.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

GP is wrong about the security of PoS. It is slightly less secure in favour of being more energy efficient, however it’s not that much more insecure.

by exdsq 6y ago

GP is wrong about the security of PoS. It is slightly less secure in favour of being more energy efficient, however it’s not that much more insecure.

potiuper 6y ago

https://etherscan.io/address/0x00000000219ab540356cbb839cbe05303d7705fa https://etherscan.io/address/0x00000000219ab540356cbb839cbe0... shows the current total value staked for ETH2 at about $10B USD (4M ETH); 51% is $5.1B USD (2M ETH) with around 115M ETH in existence. Aave has about 0.6M ETH available to loan out at 0.76% APR (https://app.aave.com/reserve-overview/ETH-0xc02aaa39b223fe8d0a0e5c4f27ead9083c756cc20xb53c1a33016b2dc2ff3653530bff1848a515c8c5 https://app.aave.com/reserve-overview/ETH-0xc02aaa39b223fe8d...) This is about a 0.01% interest rate per hr (8760 compound periods per yr) https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/periodic-interest-rate-calculator.php https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/periodi... Assuming the rest of the (1.4M) ETH to be staked could be obtained by loaning and converting from other staked Aave assets currently totaling at around $7.5B USD for the same rate and same period, then the interest fee for a 1 hr 2M ETH loan is: $5.1B USD * 0.0001 = $5(10)K USD. Over 50 hedge funds have the $6.375B USD or more in assets (https://www.pionline.com/interactive/largest-hedge-fund-managers-2020 https://www.pionline.com/interactive/largest-hedge-fund-mana...) that could provide for Aave's max LTV of 80% to borrow the $5.1B USD of ETH. Alternatively, a PoW attack on ETH assuming NiceHash, which currently only has 7% of the total ETH hash rate available, rates for 1 hr is ~$2M USD (https://www.crypto51.app https://www.crypto51.app note out of date figures). So, relatively the current ETH2 PoS attack cost is around 4 times smaller than the ETH PoW attack cost or an absolute difference of about $1.5M USD, which seems like a drastic difference in cost, but YMMV, especially considering your relationship with Cardano.

potiuper 6y ago
Another case considering the requirement that the existing 51% could not be loaned would require just over doubling the outstanding staked assets, which is more than Aave's current $7.5B available to loan, to a total staked ETH2 of $20B USD again assuming no previously controlled stake. But, assuming the same the interest rate, the fee for a 1 hr 4M ETH loan is: $10B USD * 0.0001 = $1M USD. Still, half the amount compared to the PoW.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]