4 ms·

> We have paid an enormous price for the "free" Internet and that price has been hidden from us through layers of affiliates and misdirection and double-Irish.

> We have paid an enormous price for the "free" Internet and that price has been hidden from us through layers of affiliates and misdirection and double-Irish. Rudderless algorithms decide whether your fame career has any kind of money associated with it and for precisely how long. When the axe descends, the only sentence can be "You have violated the ToS." I don't really think it would be any different if we paid. Look at sports for example. That's paid via subscriptions, tickets, merchandise, state sponsorship and so on, but it's still just as plastered with ads as the Internet. I think anywhere exploitation is possible, it will happen. If we paid, it'd just make some people even richer than they are now.

kelnos 6y ago
That's the thing. Ads will always generate revenue. If you can also get people to pay for your content, great. So then you have two sources of revenue for the same product. But some services do manage to do without ads; Netflix is the big one that comes to mind. Hulu has an ad-free version if you pay more. Spotify has a free ad-supported plan or a paid ad-free plan. Then you have things in the middle like HBO Max: most (all?) shows have ads before them, but it's an ad promoting another HBO show. So clearly paid & ad-free is possible. What's not clear to me is why it's possible for some things and not for others. To use your sports example, perhaps without ads ticket and merchandise prices would have to rise to the point where enough people wouldn't buy them such that it would cause a problem? I don't know what the contribution to revenue is for ticket sales vs. ads.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > But some services do manage to do without ads; Netflix is the big one that comes to mind. There’s a metric ton of ads in Netflix, they’re built into the content. All the extra time in a car chase focusing on the car logo and the characters talking about a car’s feature are not part of the plot. I find it even worse than ad breaks, since the content itself gets worse, and you waste your time. Although, I know TV networks were doing heavy product placement even before streaming came around, so they had ad breaks, ads in the show, and subscriber revenue.
- ratww 6y ago
  You answered your own question in your opening paragraph. People will keep pushing ads as long as they can get away with it. Despite what marketeers say, having no advertisements is a huge differentiator for a service, and people is willing to pay extra for it. But it won't happen in markets where it's difficult for new players to enter. I'm not familiar with sports broadcasting but I can bet this is the case. It's the same with Apple's current shift to privacy, or Microsoft's doings in open-source. Sure, they know privacy and OSS is the ethical thing to do, but they're not doing it because it's "right". They're doing it to gain customers. If either Apple or Microsoft became monopolies you can bet they would cease doing privacy/OSS it overnight.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    > I'm not familiar with sports broadcasting but I can bet this is the case. I wasn't thinking just broadcasting but also venues, jerseys and everything. Look at a typical NASCAR or football game, ads are everywhere at the event. I think you're right though. There has to be competition or regulation, otherwise they can get away with it and as you both say they will.

kelnos 6y ago

That's the thing. Ads will always generate revenue. If you can also get people to pay for your content, great. So then you have two sources of revenue for the same product. But some services do manage to do without ads; Netflix is the big one that comes to mind. Hulu has an ad-free version if you pay more. Spotify has a free ad-supported plan or a paid ad-free plan. Then you have things in the middle like HBO Max: most (all?) shows have ads before them, but it's an ad promoting another HBO show. So clearly paid & ad-free is possible. What's not clear to me is why it's possible for some things and not for others. To use your sports example, perhaps without ads ticket and merchandise prices would have to rise to the point where enough people wouldn't buy them such that it would cause a problem? I don't know what the contribution to revenue is for ticket sales vs. ads.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
> But some services do manage to do without ads; Netflix is the big one that comes to mind. There’s a metric ton of ads in Netflix, they’re built into the content. All the extra time in a car chase focusing on the car logo and the characters talking about a car’s feature are not part of the plot. I find it even worse than ad breaks, since the content itself gets worse, and you waste your time. Although, I know TV networks were doing heavy product placement even before streaming came around, so they had ad breaks, ads in the show, and subscriber revenue.
ratww 6y ago
You answered your own question in your opening paragraph. People will keep pushing ads as long as they can get away with it. Despite what marketeers say, having no advertisements is a huge differentiator for a service, and people is willing to pay extra for it. But it won't happen in markets where it's difficult for new players to enter. I'm not familiar with sports broadcasting but I can bet this is the case. It's the same with Apple's current shift to privacy, or Microsoft's doings in open-source. Sure, they know privacy and OSS is the ethical thing to do, but they're not doing it because it's "right". They're doing it to gain customers. If either Apple or Microsoft became monopolies you can bet they would cease doing privacy/OSS it overnight.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  > I'm not familiar with sports broadcasting but I can bet this is the case. I wasn't thinking just broadcasting but also venues, jerseys and everything. Look at a typical NASCAR or football game, ads are everywhere at the event. I think you're right though. There has to be competition or regulation, otherwise they can get away with it and as you both say they will.