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I want to like matrix but the UI is just beyond terrible when you enable encryption. It also just ends up in lots of strange situations where if you log in from

by bogota 6y ago

I want to like matrix but the UI is just beyond terrible when you enable encryption. It also just ends up in lots of strange situations where if you log in from a new place the verification system completely bugs out. I can barely make sense of what it wants most of the time let alone getting non tech friends to use it. I want to like matrix but the non default encryption and terrible UI on element is a dealbreaker.

SahAssar 6y ago
Are you talking about just element or did you try more of the clients?
Reventlov 6y ago
Yeah I completely agree. And server side, it's not good either (you can't federate with only a few servers, bugs are everywhere)… I honestly don't get how it started to be the "de facto" open source chat system trying to replace IRC while it is this broken.
- inciampati 6y ago
  Those are minor growing pains, and irrelevant when compared to the nightmare of navigating fifty independent slack instances or convincing an entire group to move their communication onto a private solution. For me matrix has been absolutely transformative. It's letting us grow our project's realtime communication without bounds. Because it's open and federated, without the political baggage of tools like Signal or the ancient cruft of IRC, we can convince anyone to meet us there. There are almost no impediments to it's use. The clunkiness is very minor. Although they may lack some subtle UI polish, the tools don't crash and work more than well enough. I'm looking forward to when the world meets on matrix.
  - lxgr 5y ago
    > Those are minor growing pains In my experience, neglecting the onboarding experience is a cardinal sin for any project challenging some incumbent. I‘ve been struggling with understanding what Element wants from me when signing up or signing in on a new device. Unfortunately I can‘t, in good conscience, recommend this to less technically knowledgeable friends and family.
- akvadrako 6y ago
  Because there isn't much else out there which supports e2e group chats.
- 3np 5y ago
  > you can't federate with only a few servers ...Except you can? federation_domain_whitelist in synapse settings. Seems to have been working since 2018. I'm using it. Enabling it can sometimes cause significant delays when communicating with users on homeservers you're not federating with, though - I have some vague memory of seeing an open issue around improving relaying in these scenarios. I do agree that there's a long way to go before I can start recommending anything Matrix-based for friends and family. Things are just too slow, broken and inconsistent on both server- and client sides. There has been steady progress on all fronts, though. Maybe in a year or two.
zambal 6y ago
I agree that the whole identity verification stuff is confusing in element. I think it would be less so if they just generate and present the backup security key at account creation, telling users to use this when they want to login on a different device and drop the whole ad-hoc 'scan a qr code' process. Having said that, is the UI/UX apart from the above really terrible? When using as a simple messenger app, the experience for me is almost the same as WhatsApp (which almost completely replaced sms at least in the Netherlands). The biggest issue I have is that when you open the emoji selection screen when typing a message, you have to close this and reopen the keyboard to continue typing, which is a bit silly, but not a deal breaker.
- dunefox 5y ago
  > I think it would be less so if they just generate and present the backup security key at account creation, telling users to use this when they want to login on a different device and drop the whole ad-hoc 'scan a qr code' process. That's exactly what I like about Matrix. I can verify other devices simply by comparing emojis - simple, easy, great. That it should work reliably is a completely different matter, but in itself it's great.
  - zambal 5y ago
    Fair enough, maybe it was just buggy behavior that made this process confusing to me, as I agree that something like this could in theory provide a smooth experience.
jeltz 5y ago
While the UI is a bit buggy I would not call it terrible. It is an improvement over Google Hangouts (which is also quite buggy), Facebook Messenger, Skype and Whatsapp. Sure it is not as good as Slack or Discord, but if people are fine with Facebook Messenger they can also use element.

by bogota 6y ago

SahAssar 6y ago

Are you talking about just element or did you try more of the clients?

Reventlov 6y ago

Yeah I completely agree. And server side, it's not good either (you can't federate with only a few servers, bugs are everywhere)… I honestly don't get how it started to be the "de facto" open source chat system trying to replace IRC while it is this broken.

inciampati 6y ago
Those are minor growing pains, and irrelevant when compared to the nightmare of navigating fifty independent slack instances or convincing an entire group to move their communication onto a private solution. For me matrix has been absolutely transformative. It's letting us grow our project's realtime communication without bounds. Because it's open and federated, without the political baggage of tools like Signal or the ancient cruft of IRC, we can convince anyone to meet us there. There are almost no impediments to it's use. The clunkiness is very minor. Although they may lack some subtle UI polish, the tools don't crash and work more than well enough. I'm looking forward to when the world meets on matrix.
- lxgr 5y ago
  > Those are minor growing pains In my experience, neglecting the onboarding experience is a cardinal sin for any project challenging some incumbent. I‘ve been struggling with understanding what Element wants from me when signing up or signing in on a new device. Unfortunately I can‘t, in good conscience, recommend this to less technically knowledgeable friends and family.
akvadrako 6y ago
Because there isn't much else out there which supports e2e group chats.
3np 5y ago
> you can't federate with only a few servers ...Except you can? federation_domain_whitelist in synapse settings. Seems to have been working since 2018. I'm using it. Enabling it can sometimes cause significant delays when communicating with users on homeservers you're not federating with, though - I have some vague memory of seeing an open issue around improving relaying in these scenarios. I do agree that there's a long way to go before I can start recommending anything Matrix-based for friends and family. Things are just too slow, broken and inconsistent on both server- and client sides. There has been steady progress on all fronts, though. Maybe in a year or two.

zambal 6y ago

I agree that the whole identity verification stuff is confusing in element. I think it would be less so if they just generate and present the backup security key at account creation, telling users to use this when they want to login on a different device and drop the whole ad-hoc 'scan a qr code' process. Having said that, is the UI/UX apart from the above really terrible? When using as a simple messenger app, the experience for me is almost the same as WhatsApp (which almost completely replaced sms at least in the Netherlands). The biggest issue I have is that when you open the emoji selection screen when typing a message, you have to close this and reopen the keyboard to continue typing, which is a bit silly, but not a deal breaker.

dunefox 5y ago
> I think it would be less so if they just generate and present the backup security key at account creation, telling users to use this when they want to login on a different device and drop the whole ad-hoc 'scan a qr code' process. That's exactly what I like about Matrix. I can verify other devices simply by comparing emojis - simple, easy, great. That it should work reliably is a completely different matter, but in itself it's great.
- zambal 5y ago
  Fair enough, maybe it was just buggy behavior that made this process confusing to me, as I agree that something like this could in theory provide a smooth experience.

jeltz 5y ago

While the UI is a bit buggy I would not call it terrible. It is an improvement over Google Hangouts (which is also quite buggy), Facebook Messenger, Skype and Whatsapp. Sure it is not as good as Slack or Discord, but if people are fine with Facebook Messenger they can also use element.