4 ms·

> I wonder if modern graphics and voice acting might actually be making games less immersive, by asking less of players' imaginations when it comes to completin

by livre 5y ago

> I wonder if modern graphics and voice acting might actually be making games less immersive, by asking less of players' imaginations when it comes to completing the characters. Or it may just be that I'm older now. Depends on the game but I think you may be experiencing survivorship bias. You can remember the greatness of old games (I do too, still have very fond memories of Monkey Island) but right now you are going through a raw, unfiltered experience and get to see the few good games that will be remembered and also the bad games that will be forgotten in a year or two. Good voice acting can make the experience much more immersive than it has ever been, What Remains of Edith Finch is a great example of that. Voice acting in that game makes it feel like someone is narrating a good book and adds a ton of emotion to the story, the amazing sound track also helps with that. Modern graphics help games such as The Last of Us or Horizon Zero Down make you feel like you are part of the story, living through it along with the characters. Those things don't ask less of your imagination, they let you focus your imagination on other aspects of the story now that you don't have to worry about pretending that a bunch of blurry pixels is a person. I'd like to conclude that that's just my personal experience and anyone can feel exactly the opposite and also be right.

jamesponddotco 5y ago
As someone who puts Final Fantasy VII on a pedestal—for multiple reasons, including, but not limited to, the fact that I learned English to understand the plot when I was a kid—, I have to agree with you. While the plot from Final Fantasy VII still holds up, and a certain character's death in the game was my first experience with death, games like The Last of Us—especially the second one— and Ghost of Tsushima have a much bigger impact on me today than Final Fantasy VII did at the time, and the voice acting is a big part of that; characters feel more real, which make me care. Actually, Horizon Zero Dawn is a good example of that. My wife and I loved the game and did every single thing we could, but the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all.
- freetime2 5y ago
  > the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all. I think part of the issue for me is that I'm subconsciously holding modern graphics and voice acting up to the standard of a Pixar movie (which I consider to be generally quite good). When a character is badly voiced, it really grates on me. And the "uncanny valley" effect of unrealistic facial animations is an immersion killer for me as well. When dialogue is text-based, it's my own voice which I am hearing - and is far less likely to be offensive to me. Bad writing (or just too much dialogue) can of course still be an issue.
- vmception 5y ago
  I didn’t find HzD voice acting to be atrocious Does anyone have a side by side comparison of good vs bad voice acting in video games, I know plenty of example of universally bad voice acting but when it comes to flagship or AAA titles the criticisms seem arbitrary This is analogous to someone telling me Red Dead Redemption has bad voice acting or Detroit Become Human was the worst due to that reason I cant really tell the difference and I’m pretty content with that, but curious about what other people are judging
  - klmadfejno 5y ago
    Silent Hill 2 vs HD remake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GKtsHcJOMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GKtsHcJOMI
    - vmception 5y ago
      This is helpful but even here it took me a few of the clips to know which one was the bad one Halfway through it was obvious that the remake was bad I can still see how I would have ignored this in other games
      - klmadfejno 5y ago
        I don't know if the HD remake would have bothered me so much as the original felt really engaging and ethereal.
- livre 5y ago
  > Actually, Horizon Zero Dawn is a good example of that. My wife and I loved the game and did every single thing we could, but the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all. I had forgotten how bad it was but you helped me remember. I played the Spanish dub of the game which is even worse. The graphics are great but the voice acting and robotic conversations kill a bit of the immersion.
tarsinge 5y ago
> Modern graphics help games such as The Last of Us or Horizon Zero Down make you feel like you are part of the story, living through it along with the characters. Except it doesn't work for me. It's in an uncanny valley of near realism, where I notice every flaws and bugs that instantly break the immersion. Same with character development: due to growing up and kind of getting more experience of humankind I find myself becoming more demanding on character and worldbuilding coherence. When huge parts are up to the imagination, suspension of disbelief works for me. I just found I can still get emotional over a few pixel Tamagotchi by reading that article. But with modern graphics, the bar is set very high for everything else to follow and be credible (it needs to be like a strong very long good movie).
- killtimeatwork 5y ago
  > Except it doesn't work for me. It's in an uncanny valley of near realism, where I notice every flaws and bugs that instantly break the immersion. Same for me. The high-fidelity of graphics promises me a realistic simulation of the world, while the gameplay immediately breaks immersion (e.g. if I punch one of the friendly NPCs in the face, they usually don't take offence and continue as if nothing happened etc. etc.). In the lo-fi games, it was clear from the beginning that the game is just a richer chess or minesweeper or mario or any other purely mechanical system and there were no pretense of realism - they were more coherent this way.
  - agent008t 5y ago
    I think for this reason 1998-2004 was the golden age of gaming. Hardware capabilities got good enough that fairly rich 3D environments and mechanics were possible, but they were primitive enough that there was no pretense at complete realism and imagination could fill the gaps. Games were also cheap enough to produce, so novel ideas could get funded and smaller studios could make AAA games. Gaming audiences were also still small enough that you didn't have to pander to the lowest common denominator. All of the above resulted in such gems as Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid, etc. I do not think this is nostalgia talking either - some of these games I only played for the first time recently and many years after their release.
hnlmorg 5y ago
It depends as much on the genre as it does the game. Some games aren't intended to be immersive. Take Action Fighter, The Ninja or Sonic on the Master System -- all hugely awesome action games but none are trying to build suspense-based drama, which is where the feeling of immersion is really felt the most. Like the catacombs in Phantasy Star. All of the aforementioned are Sega Master System titles but action titles invoke very different types of concentration to the latter game. Another example is Sultan's Maze on the Amstrad CPC 464 (bottom of http://www.cpcgamereviews.com/s/index26.html http://www.cpcgamereviews.com/s/index26.html). It's an 8bit game for a 64KB machine and yet that ghost used to make me jump every time despite being rather questionable graphics even for the 80s. Imagination is definitely powerful enough to fill in the blanks but you need a particularly kind of game to draw you in. Let's also not forget that as we age, our imagination becomes less powerful. People often blame our fondness of retro games as sample bias (like you have done too) but often it's just younger gamers having better imaginations and a lower bar for what they find entertaining. I've seen this first hand playing Atari 2600 games with my kids. Playing Jungle Hunt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZxw4MfXnNs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZxw4MfXnNs) my, then, 4 year old son corrected me when I referred to what appeared to me as a blocky shark -- to which my son replied "It's a crocodile daddy". And it obviously is -- but that I mean it is only obvious to adult me now that I've been told. I've played modern generation games, grew up with 80s-era BASIC micro computers and have played on practically every system -- console and computer -- released in between. And as you might have guessed from my stories above, I still own and collect these systems too. But what made a game immersive wasn't the graphics nor voice acting (though these elements can certainly pull you from the moment if they're too jarring), it was games that required one to concentrate on longer term strategies from perspective of avatar rather than concentrate on quick reactions from immediate threats (as one typically sees in arcade-style action games).
fullstop 5y ago
> What Remains of Edith Finch The cannery scene was done so very well.

by livre 5y ago

jamesponddotco 5y ago

As someone who puts Final Fantasy VII on a pedestal—for multiple reasons, including, but not limited to, the fact that I learned English to understand the plot when I was a kid—, I have to agree with you. While the plot from Final Fantasy VII still holds up, and a certain character's death in the game was my first experience with death, games like The Last of Us—especially the second one— and Ghost of Tsushima have a much bigger impact on me today than Final Fantasy VII did at the time, and the voice acting is a big part of that; characters feel more real, which make me care. Actually, Horizon Zero Dawn is a good example of that. My wife and I loved the game and did every single thing we could, but the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all.

freetime2 5y ago
> the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all. I think part of the issue for me is that I'm subconsciously holding modern graphics and voice acting up to the standard of a Pixar movie (which I consider to be generally quite good). When a character is badly voiced, it really grates on me. And the "uncanny valley" effect of unrealistic facial animations is an immersion killer for me as well. When dialogue is text-based, it's my own voice which I am hearing - and is far less likely to be offensive to me. Bad writing (or just too much dialogue) can of course still be an issue.
vmception 5y ago
I didn’t find HzD voice acting to be atrocious Does anyone have a side by side comparison of good vs bad voice acting in video games, I know plenty of example of universally bad voice acting but when it comes to flagship or AAA titles the criticisms seem arbitrary This is analogous to someone telling me Red Dead Redemption has bad voice acting or Detroit Become Human was the worst due to that reason I cant really tell the difference and I’m pretty content with that, but curious about what other people are judging
- klmadfejno 5y ago
  Silent Hill 2 vs HD remake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GKtsHcJOMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GKtsHcJOMI
  - vmception 5y ago
    This is helpful but even here it took me a few of the clips to know which one was the bad one Halfway through it was obvious that the remake was bad I can still see how I would have ignored this in other games
    - klmadfejno 5y ago
      I don't know if the HD remake would have bothered me so much as the original felt really engaging and ethereal.
livre 5y ago
> Actually, Horizon Zero Dawn is a good example of that. My wife and I loved the game and did every single thing we could, but the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all. I had forgotten how bad it was but you helped me remember. I played the Spanish dub of the game which is even worse. The graphics are great but the voice acting and robotic conversations kill a bit of the immersion.

tarsinge 5y ago

> Modern graphics help games such as The Last of Us or Horizon Zero Down make you feel like you are part of the story, living through it along with the characters. Except it doesn't work for me. It's in an uncanny valley of near realism, where I notice every flaws and bugs that instantly break the immersion. Same with character development: due to growing up and kind of getting more experience of humankind I find myself becoming more demanding on character and worldbuilding coherence. When huge parts are up to the imagination, suspension of disbelief works for me. I just found I can still get emotional over a few pixel Tamagotchi by reading that article. But with modern graphics, the bar is set very high for everything else to follow and be credible (it needs to be like a strong very long good movie).

killtimeatwork 5y ago
> Except it doesn't work for me. It's in an uncanny valley of near realism, where I notice every flaws and bugs that instantly break the immersion. Same for me. The high-fidelity of graphics promises me a realistic simulation of the world, while the gameplay immediately breaks immersion (e.g. if I punch one of the friendly NPCs in the face, they usually don't take offence and continue as if nothing happened etc. etc.). In the lo-fi games, it was clear from the beginning that the game is just a richer chess or minesweeper or mario or any other purely mechanical system and there were no pretense of realism - they were more coherent this way.
- agent008t 5y ago
  I think for this reason 1998-2004 was the golden age of gaming. Hardware capabilities got good enough that fairly rich 3D environments and mechanics were possible, but they were primitive enough that there was no pretense at complete realism and imagination could fill the gaps. Games were also cheap enough to produce, so novel ideas could get funded and smaller studios could make AAA games. Gaming audiences were also still small enough that you didn't have to pander to the lowest common denominator. All of the above resulted in such gems as Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid, etc. I do not think this is nostalgia talking either - some of these games I only played for the first time recently and many years after their release.

hnlmorg 5y ago

It depends as much on the genre as it does the game. Some games aren't intended to be immersive. Take Action Fighter, The Ninja or Sonic on the Master System -- all hugely awesome action games but none are trying to build suspense-based drama, which is where the feeling of immersion is really felt the most. Like the catacombs in Phantasy Star. All of the aforementioned are Sega Master System titles but action titles invoke very different types of concentration to the latter game. Another example is Sultan's Maze on the Amstrad CPC 464 (bottom of http://www.cpcgamereviews.com/s/index26.html http://www.cpcgamereviews.com/s/index26.html). It's an 8bit game for a 64KB machine and yet that ghost used to make me jump every time despite being rather questionable graphics even for the 80s. Imagination is definitely powerful enough to fill in the blanks but you need a particularly kind of game to draw you in. Let's also not forget that as we age, our imagination becomes less powerful. People often blame our fondness of retro games as sample bias (like you have done too) but often it's just younger gamers having better imaginations and a lower bar for what they find entertaining. I've seen this first hand playing Atari 2600 games with my kids. Playing Jungle Hunt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZxw4MfXnNs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZxw4MfXnNs) my, then, 4 year old son corrected me when I referred to what appeared to me as a blocky shark -- to which my son replied "It's a crocodile daddy". And it obviously is -- but that I mean it is only obvious to adult me now that I've been told. I've played modern generation games, grew up with 80s-era BASIC micro computers and have played on practically every system -- console and computer -- released in between. And as you might have guessed from my stories above, I still own and collect these systems too. But what made a game immersive wasn't the graphics nor voice acting (though these elements can certainly pull you from the moment if they're too jarring), it was games that required one to concentrate on longer term strategies from perspective of avatar rather than concentrate on quick reactions from immediate threats (as one typically sees in arcade-style action games).

fullstop 5y ago

> What Remains of Edith Finch The cannery scene was done so very well.