5 ms·

I wish they’d release all data for currentMinusX years ago. There could be so much fun playing with that data. Could make an accurate iRacing model, could comp

I wish they’d release all data for currentMinusX years ago. There could be so much fun playing with that data. Could make an accurate iRacing model, could compare teams historical downforce levels, could make tiny 3D models to paint

mhh__ 5y ago
A million times this. Honda published a teeny bit of data in the mid 2000s but that's basically it
- KMag 5y ago
  Speaking of Honda and 2000s, the S2000 engine is a pretty remarkable piece of engineering. It would be really interesting for them to publish data for a car that's reasonably obtainable on the used market. Both engine and aerodynamic fluid models would be interesting to play around with.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    Tyre data is literally worth its weight in gold unfortunately
    - KMag 5y ago
      > Tyre data is literally worth its weight in gold unfortunately The minimum amount of energy to flip a bit at the temperature of the cosmic background radiation, converted to equivalent mass via E=MC^2, is minuscule. (The mass of a black hole with one bit of entropy at its surface is also minuscule.) So any data worth storing is literally worth several orders of magnitude more than its weight in gold (assuming the gold and the data are weighed under the same gravitational acceleration). http://scottkurowski.com/massbit/index.htm http://scottkurowski.com/massbit/index.htm Edit: apparently people are taking my response as being more snarky than I intended. I just find it interesting that bits actually have mass. Information is incredibly expensive on a per-mass basis.
      - ddingus 5y ago
        I appreciate your comment and learned something new that is fun to think about.
      - mhh__ 5y ago
        The tyres mass.
        KMag 5y ago
        Thanks for the clarification. I think we all understood what you meant. A more literal interpretation just reminded me of a tidbit of physics I find very interesting.
        rlonn 5y ago
        Previous commenter did write "literally". A word which, IMO, is ridiculously overused and abused by people with a bit of a chip on their shoulder. I'd say they asked for it! :)
        mhh__ 5y ago
        My background is in physics (the tyres are a hobby), so maybe I was due. I immediately knew what the comment would be the moment I posted it but it's 6AM so I didn't bother being more precise. There's probably an information-theoretic framework to calculate the value of the data but who cares (Answer: Me, but again 6AM).
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        You could modulate photons, they are massless.
        phonon 5y ago
        It does have momentum though!
        5y ago
1_player 5y ago
Regulations always change and what was legal today might be banned tomorrow and be legal again (like Williams active suspensions from the Mansell era) It doesn't make sense to make all data public when there might be something the FIA or other teams didn't know about and might be useful in the future. F1 is all about living on the edge of what's allowed by the rules, and more often than not crossing that line and hoping not to get caught by the FIA. There's a fantastic interview with Ecclestone, Withing and Piquet (1) where they reminisce the olden days and have a laugh admitting their Brabham car was so illegal they would have been disqualified by the FIA had they knew that. 2019 Ferrari had an amazing engine and then they got caught doing tricks with the fuel sensors. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsaUgXf3v4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsaUgXf3v4
- Someone 5y ago
  It makes sense to release all data. Not for the teams, but for FIA. They could require teams to release it after some time, so that teams with smaller budgets can learn from the work done by teams with larger ones/better engineers. That would level the playing field a bit and, I guess, limit the amount of bending the rules (even if the FIA would give amnesty on any infringements found, which it probably should do)
  - Gene_Parmesan 5y ago
    Maybe, but the IP holders are never going to agree to this. You have not only the entrants themselves, but also engine manufacturers and so on. I really believe the manufacturers would leave the sport first; many of them are on a hair trigger anyways given the shift in consumer R&D to electric.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Yes, but then you'd find that the FIA cut deals with teams in the past to wipe various infringements off the books so they wouldn't be embarrassed. Take for instance the way Ferrari performed after changing 'absolutely nothing' from one day to the next they were in the midfield or even at the tail. If they released everything it might show how Ferrari might have to hand in all of their points in 2020, and quite possibly 2019 as well. And/or be disqualified. F1 is a media circus, not a sport and 'fair' and 'level playing field' are things that are not on the books unless they happen to drive up the bottom line.
m463 5y ago
I remember reading a friend's "owner's manual" for a honda road-racing (only) motorcycle years ago and it was amazing. A normal motorcycle owner's manual is almost 100% propaganda by weight. it's basically legalese regarding injury, legalese regarding warranty type stuff, a few specificaitons, a bit of sort of fantasy maintenance which mostly segways into... "contact a dealer", then lists dealers In comparison the road-racing honda manual talked about reality. written by engineers, not lawyers. For example, I recall it told you how to gear the bike for different speeds (the kinds that would lose your license, wallet and prospects on the street) It also had carb (yes) settings for different track temperatures and all the maintenance intervals were in hours of use. I think this kind of stuff is a goldmine, and can really educate.
- baybal2 5y ago
  Are you into motorcycles? I've been recently thinking over a problem how to prevent squat on hub motor powered motorcycles/scooters. I would appreciate to know you think.
- chronolitus 5y ago
  Right, this is true for the owner's manual. The service manual, on the other hand, is clearly written by engineers. Example: http://www.geersgonewild.com/z1000/Manuals/2007_Z1000.pdf http://www.geersgonewild.com/z1000/Manuals/2007_Z1000.pdf
Shorel 5y ago
iRacing? Nah, they will add it to rFactor2 and Assetto Corsa.

mhh__ 5y ago

A million times this. Honda published a teeny bit of data in the mid 2000s but that's basically it

KMag 5y ago
Speaking of Honda and 2000s, the S2000 engine is a pretty remarkable piece of engineering. It would be really interesting for them to publish data for a car that's reasonably obtainable on the used market. Both engine and aerodynamic fluid models would be interesting to play around with.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Tyre data is literally worth its weight in gold unfortunately
  - KMag 5y ago
    > Tyre data is literally worth its weight in gold unfortunately The minimum amount of energy to flip a bit at the temperature of the cosmic background radiation, converted to equivalent mass via E=MC^2, is minuscule. (The mass of a black hole with one bit of entropy at its surface is also minuscule.) So any data worth storing is literally worth several orders of magnitude more than its weight in gold (assuming the gold and the data are weighed under the same gravitational acceleration). http://scottkurowski.com/massbit/index.htm http://scottkurowski.com/massbit/index.htm Edit: apparently people are taking my response as being more snarky than I intended. I just find it interesting that bits actually have mass. Information is incredibly expensive on a per-mass basis.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      I appreciate your comment and learned something new that is fun to think about.
    - mhh__ 5y ago
      The tyres mass.
      - KMag 5y ago
        Thanks for the clarification. I think we all understood what you meant. A more literal interpretation just reminded me of a tidbit of physics I find very interesting.
        rlonn 5y ago
        Previous commenter did write "literally". A word which, IMO, is ridiculously overused and abused by people with a bit of a chip on their shoulder. I'd say they asked for it! :)
        mhh__ 5y ago
        My background is in physics (the tyres are a hobby), so maybe I was due. I immediately knew what the comment would be the moment I posted it but it's 6AM so I didn't bother being more precise. There's probably an information-theoretic framework to calculate the value of the data but who cares (Answer: Me, but again 6AM).
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      You could modulate photons, they are massless.
      - phonon 5y ago
        It does have momentum though!
        5y ago

1_player 5y ago

Regulations always change and what was legal today might be banned tomorrow and be legal again (like Williams active suspensions from the Mansell era) It doesn't make sense to make all data public when there might be something the FIA or other teams didn't know about and might be useful in the future. F1 is all about living on the edge of what's allowed by the rules, and more often than not crossing that line and hoping not to get caught by the FIA. There's a fantastic interview with Ecclestone, Withing and Piquet (1) where they reminisce the olden days and have a laugh admitting their Brabham car was so illegal they would have been disqualified by the FIA had they knew that. 2019 Ferrari had an amazing engine and then they got caught doing tricks with the fuel sensors. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsaUgXf3v4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsaUgXf3v4

Someone 5y ago
It makes sense to release all data. Not for the teams, but for FIA. They could require teams to release it after some time, so that teams with smaller budgets can learn from the work done by teams with larger ones/better engineers. That would level the playing field a bit and, I guess, limit the amount of bending the rules (even if the FIA would give amnesty on any infringements found, which it probably should do)
- Gene_Parmesan 5y ago
  Maybe, but the IP holders are never going to agree to this. You have not only the entrants themselves, but also engine manufacturers and so on. I really believe the manufacturers would leave the sport first; many of them are on a hair trigger anyways given the shift in consumer R&D to electric.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Yes, but then you'd find that the FIA cut deals with teams in the past to wipe various infringements off the books so they wouldn't be embarrassed. Take for instance the way Ferrari performed after changing 'absolutely nothing' from one day to the next they were in the midfield or even at the tail. If they released everything it might show how Ferrari might have to hand in all of their points in 2020, and quite possibly 2019 as well. And/or be disqualified. F1 is a media circus, not a sport and 'fair' and 'level playing field' are things that are not on the books unless they happen to drive up the bottom line.

m463 5y ago

I remember reading a friend's "owner's manual" for a honda road-racing (only) motorcycle years ago and it was amazing. A normal motorcycle owner's manual is almost 100% propaganda by weight. it's basically legalese regarding injury, legalese regarding warranty type stuff, a few specificaitons, a bit of sort of fantasy maintenance which mostly segways into... "contact a dealer", then lists dealers In comparison the road-racing honda manual talked about reality. written by engineers, not lawyers. For example, I recall it told you how to gear the bike for different speeds (the kinds that would lose your license, wallet and prospects on the street) It also had carb (yes) settings for different track temperatures and all the maintenance intervals were in hours of use. I think this kind of stuff is a goldmine, and can really educate.

baybal2 5y ago
Are you into motorcycles? I've been recently thinking over a problem how to prevent squat on hub motor powered motorcycles/scooters. I would appreciate to know you think.
chronolitus 5y ago
Right, this is true for the owner's manual. The service manual, on the other hand, is clearly written by engineers. Example: http://www.geersgonewild.com/z1000/Manuals/2007_Z1000.pdf http://www.geersgonewild.com/z1000/Manuals/2007_Z1000.pdf

Shorel 5y ago

iRacing? Nah, they will add it to rFactor2 and Assetto Corsa.