4 ms·

On a tangent, I wonder what effects Starlink will have in countries where the government wants to control or filter/restrict people's internet access?

yosito 5y ago
I know Cuba strictly controls which antennas can be imported into the country. I think it would be pretty hard to sneak a Starlink device in undetected, even if Starlink supported it.
- sumedh 5y ago
  > I think it would be pretty hard to sneak a Starlink device in undetected, I am sure people who smuggle drugs will find a way.
sneak 5y ago
I wondered this too, but came to the realization that it will be like any other ISP, and comply with any/all local laws it has to comply with to get the revenue that it is ultimately a company's job to get. Most companies don't engage in activism/disobedience at the expense of revenue. Apple censors the App Store and backdoors iCloud for the CCP (via state-operated servers) to operate in mainland China, for example. The ground stations will have to be fairly close to the customers for a while, and the customer antennas aren't particularly covert. It will probably have all manner of government-mandated filtering like any other established commercial ISP. After all, it's nothing without its ground stations right now. EDIT: It was HN that changed my view on this, in some of the comments in the HN thread on my Starlink blog post. I started out hopeful and idealistic about Starlink being an anti-censorship technology.
outcoldman 5y ago
I am sure it is going to be prohibited to use it over there. I feel like I already read somewhere that government in Russia is concern about it.
beambot 5y ago
"Russia may fine citizens for using SpaceX's Starlink internet. Here's how the internet service poses a threat to authoritarian regimes." https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-may-fine-citizens-spacex-starlink-internet-authoritarian-regime-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-may-fine-citizens-spa...
cameldrv 5y ago
For other sat phones and sat internet, if a country makes it illegal, the sat carriers don't provide service when you're in that country.
- sumedh 5y ago
  What happens if you are in a border area and one country its legal and one country its illegal?
  - josefx 5y ago
    Use decades old techniques to identify your exact location and lock you out? Only interesting question is which side the company picks when the border is disputed.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_leg... This kind of technique has also been targeted at others in the Middle East.
  - michaelt 5y ago
    The country that's banned your service has exhausted almost all its leverage. As long as you make a moderate effort, so they don't feel inclined to jam your service or shoot down your satellites, who cares if the signal bleeds over the border by a few km? Not like they're going to make you double-illegal.
grecy 5y ago
There are already a handful of countries that restrict the import of things like sat phones, CB radios, etc. The Starlink dish will just be on that same list of prohibited goods, and Customs will stop them coming into the country. (I was warned NOT to take a sat phone on my trek all the way around Africa - governments of countries like Rep. Congo, Sudan, Nigeria and a few others don't like civilians (especially foreigners) having that tech)
- mnw21cam 5y ago
  I was in Kenya in the 90s. The government there were OK with you having two-way radio equipment, just as long as you compensated the national telephone carrier for their loss of business. I believe the cost was quite astronomical. Oh, and certain frequency bands were banned.
paxys 5y ago
Realistically Starlink will register as an ISP in the country and follow government rules for censorship like all the rest.
walrus01 5y ago
A starlink terminal needs to transmit in known bands and have clear unobstructed view of the sky, and looks quite distinctive. Authoritarian states like Iran are totally capable of training cops to use portable spectrum analyzers, which are not nearly as big or costly as they used to be. I'm not saying it's an impossible problem to solve, but will require some real time and effort.
postingawayonhn 5y ago
Very little without the US government giving them the nod to provide these services (which is very unlikely). You could just about start World War 3.

yosito 5y ago

I know Cuba strictly controls which antennas can be imported into the country. I think it would be pretty hard to sneak a Starlink device in undetected, even if Starlink supported it.

sumedh 5y ago
> I think it would be pretty hard to sneak a Starlink device in undetected, I am sure people who smuggle drugs will find a way.

sneak 5y ago

I wondered this too, but came to the realization that it will be like any other ISP, and comply with any/all local laws it has to comply with to get the revenue that it is ultimately a company's job to get. Most companies don't engage in activism/disobedience at the expense of revenue. Apple censors the App Store and backdoors iCloud for the CCP (via state-operated servers) to operate in mainland China, for example. The ground stations will have to be fairly close to the customers for a while, and the customer antennas aren't particularly covert. It will probably have all manner of government-mandated filtering like any other established commercial ISP. After all, it's nothing without its ground stations right now. EDIT: It was HN that changed my view on this, in some of the comments in the HN thread on my Starlink blog post. I started out hopeful and idealistic about Starlink being an anti-censorship technology.

outcoldman 5y ago

I am sure it is going to be prohibited to use it over there. I feel like I already read somewhere that government in Russia is concern about it.

beambot 5y ago

"Russia may fine citizens for using SpaceX's Starlink internet. Here's how the internet service poses a threat to authoritarian regimes." https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-may-fine-citizens-spacex-starlink-internet-authoritarian-regime-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-may-fine-citizens-spa...

cameldrv 5y ago

For other sat phones and sat internet, if a country makes it illegal, the sat carriers don't provide service when you're in that country.

sumedh 5y ago
What happens if you are in a border area and one country its legal and one country its illegal?
- josefx 5y ago
  Use decades old techniques to identify your exact location and lock you out? Only interesting question is which side the company picks when the border is disputed.
- busterarm 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_leg... This kind of technique has also been targeted at others in the Middle East.
- michaelt 5y ago
  The country that's banned your service has exhausted almost all its leverage. As long as you make a moderate effort, so they don't feel inclined to jam your service or shoot down your satellites, who cares if the signal bleeds over the border by a few km? Not like they're going to make you double-illegal.

grecy 5y ago

There are already a handful of countries that restrict the import of things like sat phones, CB radios, etc. The Starlink dish will just be on that same list of prohibited goods, and Customs will stop them coming into the country. (I was warned NOT to take a sat phone on my trek all the way around Africa - governments of countries like Rep. Congo, Sudan, Nigeria and a few others don't like civilians (especially foreigners) having that tech)

mnw21cam 5y ago
I was in Kenya in the 90s. The government there were OK with you having two-way radio equipment, just as long as you compensated the national telephone carrier for their loss of business. I believe the cost was quite astronomical. Oh, and certain frequency bands were banned.

paxys 5y ago

Realistically Starlink will register as an ISP in the country and follow government rules for censorship like all the rest.

walrus01 5y ago

A starlink terminal needs to transmit in known bands and have clear unobstructed view of the sky, and looks quite distinctive. Authoritarian states like Iran are totally capable of training cops to use portable spectrum analyzers, which are not nearly as big or costly as they used to be. I'm not saying it's an impossible problem to solve, but will require some real time and effort.

postingawayonhn 5y ago

Very little without the US government giving them the nod to provide these services (which is very unlikely). You could just about start World War 3.