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The most memorable video games of my childhood were Final Fantasy 2 (aka FF4 in Japan), and FF7. And the most memorable moments from those games are when they k

The most memorable video games of my childhood were Final Fantasy 2 (aka FF4 in Japan), and FF7. And the most memorable moments from those games are when they killed off playable characters that I had become quite fond of. Those 16 bit graphics on the SNES, combined with the right musical score, could create a pretty moving experience. I never had a Tamagotchi, but I can understand how the loss of a digital pet could have been quite traumatic. I wonder if modern graphics and voice acting might actually be making games less immersive, by asking less of players' imaginations when it comes to completing the characters. Or it may just be that I'm older now.

29athrowaway 6y ago
My favorite was Final Fantasy 6. I did not notice how dark some themes in the game were until later in life when I replayed the game. Seeing an entire city being poisoned, magical robots built with energy drained from enslaved magical creatures, murder, suicide, poisoining, mind control, abandoned babies, feral kids, cults, fires, cataclysms, possessed artwork, trains to the afterlife, tyranny, etc. But that's part of what makes it a great game. The SNES had many good JRPGs in addition to Final Fantasy, like Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Seiken Dendetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana), Super Mario RPG and others. They are worth playing even today.
livre 6y ago
> I wonder if modern graphics and voice acting might actually be making games less immersive, by asking less of players' imaginations when it comes to completing the characters. Or it may just be that I'm older now. Depends on the game but I think you may be experiencing survivorship bias. You can remember the greatness of old games (I do too, still have very fond memories of Monkey Island) but right now you are going through a raw, unfiltered experience and get to see the few good games that will be remembered and also the bad games that will be forgotten in a year or two. Good voice acting can make the experience much more immersive than it has ever been, What Remains of Edith Finch is a great example of that. Voice acting in that game makes it feel like someone is narrating a good book and adds a ton of emotion to the story, the amazing sound track also helps with that. Modern graphics help games such as The Last of Us or Horizon Zero Down make you feel like you are part of the story, living through it along with the characters. Those things don't ask less of your imagination, they let you focus your imagination on other aspects of the story now that you don't have to worry about pretending that a bunch of blurry pixels is a person. I'd like to conclude that that's just my personal experience and anyone can feel exactly the opposite and also be right.
- jamesponddotco 6y ago
  As someone who puts Final Fantasy VII on a pedestal—for multiple reasons, including, but not limited to, the fact that I learned English to understand the plot when I was a kid—, I have to agree with you. While the plot from Final Fantasy VII still holds up, and a certain character's death in the game was my first experience with death, games like The Last of Us—especially the second one— and Ghost of Tsushima have a much bigger impact on me today than Final Fantasy VII did at the time, and the voice acting is a big part of that; characters feel more real, which make me care. Actually, Horizon Zero Dawn is a good example of that. My wife and I loved the game and did every single thing we could, but the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all.
  - freetime2 6y ago
    > the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all. I think part of the issue for me is that I'm subconsciously holding modern graphics and voice acting up to the standard of a Pixar movie (which I consider to be generally quite good). When a character is badly voiced, it really grates on me. And the "uncanny valley" effect of unrealistic facial animations is an immersion killer for me as well. When dialogue is text-based, it's my own voice which I am hearing - and is far less likely to be offensive to me. Bad writing (or just too much dialogue) can of course still be an issue.
  - vmception 6y ago
    I didn’t find HzD voice acting to be atrocious Does anyone have a side by side comparison of good vs bad voice acting in video games, I know plenty of example of universally bad voice acting but when it comes to flagship or AAA titles the criticisms seem arbitrary This is analogous to someone telling me Red Dead Redemption has bad voice acting or Detroit Become Human was the worst due to that reason I cant really tell the difference and I’m pretty content with that, but curious about what other people are judging
    - klmadfejno 6y ago
nfoz 6y ago
Have you played the FF7 Remake? More than anything, it feels a lot more immersive to me than the original.
- freetime2 6y ago
  I have not, since I don't have a PS4. If I am ever able to get my hands on a Playstation 5 I will definitely make sure to. I think that would be a really interesting comparison. I'm also tempted now to go and give Final Fantasy 3 (aka FF6) a play through. I've never actually played that game, even though it's widely considered to be a better game than FF2. It would be a good way determine how much of my fondness for those other games is nostalgia vs. them being great games in their own right.
jle17 6y ago
> I never had a Tamagotchi, but I can understand how the loss of a digital pet could have been quite traumatic. As a kid I cried when it "died". Taking care of the thing for days, seeing it grow, caring for him when sick, it sure created some attachment even though I knew it was virtual. And because I couldn't bring it at school, parents had to take care of it sometimes, with the pressure of knowing I would badly react if it didn't receive proper care and died (or became sick). Not sure this is positive, it could certainly have done without this feature. At least my parents didn't thought that me crying over a piece of electronics was very healthy.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  My little cousin was like this. His tamagotchi was fully happy, well fed, etc. But he seemed too attached to it. One day I told him "I am going to set you free, bro" and reset it. He was pretty upset about it at first but then thanked me. Few years later I saw him playing an MMO. I think it was Ultima Online. I asked him what he was doing and apparently he was ambushing and mugging newer players. I hope both things were unrelated.
  - cosmodisk 6y ago
    I still regret telling a few friends about Ultima Online at the time. They got addicted and it spread like virus and in no time the whole town was playing it. There was no place you could hide from conversations about weapons,attacks,and custom servers.
    - 29athrowaway 6y ago
      TV is not addictive but for some people it is. Same with food or shopping... and the Internet, and games. It is not your fault.
  - sumtechguy 6y ago
    I had something happen to me that was similar. I was forever scrounging for points for this cocacola thing. One day I realized I had let some expire. I gathered all of them up and dumped them in the garbage and did a little dance in my kitchen yelling 'im free!' my wife thought I was nuts. I am now on the look out for engaging patterns companies use to draw you in. Point systems are one of them.
tarsinge 6y ago
Not sure if voice acting is the problem because the first Metal Gear Solid on PS1 is still one of the best video game and movie experience for me.
- freetime2 6y ago
  Metal Gear Solid is a good counter example that I hadn’t thought of. The voice acting (or at least my memory of it) was excellent, and I really did develop a fondness for Snake and everyone else on the radio.
- agent008t 6y ago
  But Metal Gear Solid had great voice acting! Much better than MGS5, anyway. And so did Deus Ex. Part of the fun was that these games did not take themselves super seriously, they did not pretend to be an overly-polished (to the point of being sterile) Hollywood blockbuster. It's a bit like 80s movies. They weren't realistic, they had cliches, they weren't polished, but they were awesome!
Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago
I don't think it's age. These days I've replayed The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall and I find it more immersive than The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Both are of the same genre. The latter has much better graphics (and it's a great game) but the former's labyrinthine dungeons, with foreboding music, rats and bats screeching and skeletons roaring, never fail to make me feel the oppression of being in hostile underground tunnels. The relief when I exit the dungeon, quest completed, and I hear the sounds of nature, almost makes me feel the fresh air in my face...
- nerdponx 6y ago
  I suspect that the difference is that, if the graphics are just "bad" enough, the player starts filling in details from their own imagination, and I suspect that this increases immersion. Being young and impressionable probably also helps.
  - anthk 6y ago
    More than just that. Think about "artsy with personality and taste" artwork in 2D games, which was enforced because of limitations.
elliekelly 6y ago
> I wonder if modern graphics and voice acting might actually be making games less immersive, by asking less of players' imaginations when it comes to completing the characters. I’ve had Red Dead Redemption 2 for two+ years and I accidentally read a spoiler early on and I still can’t bring myself to complete the story because I’m so attached to a character I know will die. I’m probably dreading this character’s death far more than I dreaded my Tamagotchi’s and I was well and truly devastated the first time my Tamagotchi died.
fullstop 6y ago
It is not a very challenging game, but that is the core idea of Spiritfarer [1]. You care for spirits, help them come to terms with their finality, and take them to the afterlife. They give you enough of their back story to explain why their behaviors and preferences are what they are. You figure out their favorite foods, try to keep them happy with their accommodations and care, and then have to say goodbye forever. It is done very, very well. It's easy to get attached to these characters and then have to let go of them. 10/10 in my book. [1] https://thunderlotusgames.com/spiritfarer/ https://thunderlotusgames.com/spiritfarer/
anthk 6y ago
I still play text adventures because of that. A good script can inmerse you better than most ultraHD graphics.

29athrowaway 6y ago

My favorite was Final Fantasy 6. I did not notice how dark some themes in the game were until later in life when I replayed the game. Seeing an entire city being poisoned, magical robots built with energy drained from enslaved magical creatures, murder, suicide, poisoining, mind control, abandoned babies, feral kids, cults, fires, cataclysms, possessed artwork, trains to the afterlife, tyranny, etc. But that's part of what makes it a great game. The SNES had many good JRPGs in addition to Final Fantasy, like Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Seiken Dendetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana), Super Mario RPG and others. They are worth playing even today.

livre 6y ago

> I wonder if modern graphics and voice acting might actually be making games less immersive, by asking less of players' imaginations when it comes to completing the characters. Or it may just be that I'm older now. Depends on the game but I think you may be experiencing survivorship bias. You can remember the greatness of old games (I do too, still have very fond memories of Monkey Island) but right now you are going through a raw, unfiltered experience and get to see the few good games that will be remembered and also the bad games that will be forgotten in a year or two. Good voice acting can make the experience much more immersive than it has ever been, What Remains of Edith Finch is a great example of that. Voice acting in that game makes it feel like someone is narrating a good book and adds a ton of emotion to the story, the amazing sound track also helps with that. Modern graphics help games such as The Last of Us or Horizon Zero Down make you feel like you are part of the story, living through it along with the characters. Those things don't ask less of your imagination, they let you focus your imagination on other aspects of the story now that you don't have to worry about pretending that a bunch of blurry pixels is a person. I'd like to conclude that that's just my personal experience and anyone can feel exactly the opposite and also be right.

jamesponddotco 6y ago
As someone who puts Final Fantasy VII on a pedestal—for multiple reasons, including, but not limited to, the fact that I learned English to understand the plot when I was a kid—, I have to agree with you. While the plot from Final Fantasy VII still holds up, and a certain character's death in the game was my first experience with death, games like The Last of Us—especially the second one— and Ghost of Tsushima have a much bigger impact on me today than Final Fantasy VII did at the time, and the voice acting is a big part of that; characters feel more real, which make me care. Actually, Horizon Zero Dawn is a good example of that. My wife and I loved the game and did every single thing we could, but the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all.
- freetime2 6y ago
  > the atrocious voice acting means that while we loved the gameplay and story, we did not care about the characters at all. I think part of the issue for me is that I'm subconsciously holding modern graphics and voice acting up to the standard of a Pixar movie (which I consider to be generally quite good). When a character is badly voiced, it really grates on me. And the "uncanny valley" effect of unrealistic facial animations is an immersion killer for me as well. When dialogue is text-based, it's my own voice which I am hearing - and is far less likely to be offensive to me. Bad writing (or just too much dialogue) can of course still be an issue.
- vmception 6y ago
  I didn’t find HzD voice acting to be atrocious Does anyone have a side by side comparison of good vs bad voice acting in video games, I know plenty of example of universally bad voice acting but when it comes to flagship or AAA titles the criticisms seem arbitrary This is analogous to someone telling me Red Dead Redemption has bad voice acting or Detroit Become Human was the worst due to that reason I cant really tell the difference and I’m pretty content with that, but curious about what other people are judging
  - klmadfejno 6y ago

nfoz 6y ago

Have you played the FF7 Remake? More than anything, it feels a lot more immersive to me than the original.

freetime2 6y ago
I have not, since I don't have a PS4. If I am ever able to get my hands on a Playstation 5 I will definitely make sure to. I think that would be a really interesting comparison. I'm also tempted now to go and give Final Fantasy 3 (aka FF6) a play through. I've never actually played that game, even though it's widely considered to be a better game than FF2. It would be a good way determine how much of my fondness for those other games is nostalgia vs. them being great games in their own right.

jle17 6y ago

> I never had a Tamagotchi, but I can understand how the loss of a digital pet could have been quite traumatic. As a kid I cried when it "died". Taking care of the thing for days, seeing it grow, caring for him when sick, it sure created some attachment even though I knew it was virtual. And because I couldn't bring it at school, parents had to take care of it sometimes, with the pressure of knowing I would badly react if it didn't receive proper care and died (or became sick). Not sure this is positive, it could certainly have done without this feature. At least my parents didn't thought that me crying over a piece of electronics was very healthy.

29athrowaway 6y ago
My little cousin was like this. His tamagotchi was fully happy, well fed, etc. But he seemed too attached to it. One day I told him "I am going to set you free, bro" and reset it. He was pretty upset about it at first but then thanked me. Few years later I saw him playing an MMO. I think it was Ultima Online. I asked him what he was doing and apparently he was ambushing and mugging newer players. I hope both things were unrelated.
- cosmodisk 6y ago
  I still regret telling a few friends about Ultima Online at the time. They got addicted and it spread like virus and in no time the whole town was playing it. There was no place you could hide from conversations about weapons,attacks,and custom servers.
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    TV is not addictive but for some people it is. Same with food or shopping... and the Internet, and games. It is not your fault.
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  I had something happen to me that was similar. I was forever scrounging for points for this cocacola thing. One day I realized I had let some expire. I gathered all of them up and dumped them in the garbage and did a little dance in my kitchen yelling 'im free!' my wife thought I was nuts. I am now on the look out for engaging patterns companies use to draw you in. Point systems are one of them.

tarsinge 6y ago

Not sure if voice acting is the problem because the first Metal Gear Solid on PS1 is still one of the best video game and movie experience for me.

freetime2 6y ago
Metal Gear Solid is a good counter example that I hadn’t thought of. The voice acting (or at least my memory of it) was excellent, and I really did develop a fondness for Snake and everyone else on the radio.
agent008t 6y ago
But Metal Gear Solid had great voice acting! Much better than MGS5, anyway. And so did Deus Ex. Part of the fun was that these games did not take themselves super seriously, they did not pretend to be an overly-polished (to the point of being sterile) Hollywood blockbuster. It's a bit like 80s movies. They weren't realistic, they had cliches, they weren't polished, but they were awesome!

Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago

I don't think it's age. These days I've replayed The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall and I find it more immersive than The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Both are of the same genre. The latter has much better graphics (and it's a great game) but the former's labyrinthine dungeons, with foreboding music, rats and bats screeching and skeletons roaring, never fail to make me feel the oppression of being in hostile underground tunnels. The relief when I exit the dungeon, quest completed, and I hear the sounds of nature, almost makes me feel the fresh air in my face...

nerdponx 6y ago
I suspect that the difference is that, if the graphics are just "bad" enough, the player starts filling in details from their own imagination, and I suspect that this increases immersion. Being young and impressionable probably also helps.
- anthk 6y ago
  More than just that. Think about "artsy with personality and taste" artwork in 2D games, which was enforced because of limitations.

elliekelly 6y ago

> I wonder if modern graphics and voice acting might actually be making games less immersive, by asking less of players' imaginations when it comes to completing the characters. I’ve had Red Dead Redemption 2 for two+ years and I accidentally read a spoiler early on and I still can’t bring myself to complete the story because I’m so attached to a character I know will die. I’m probably dreading this character’s death far more than I dreaded my Tamagotchi’s and I was well and truly devastated the first time my Tamagotchi died.

fullstop 6y ago

It is not a very challenging game, but that is the core idea of Spiritfarer [1]. You care for spirits, help them come to terms with their finality, and take them to the afterlife. They give you enough of their back story to explain why their behaviors and preferences are what they are. You figure out their favorite foods, try to keep them happy with their accommodations and care, and then have to say goodbye forever. It is done very, very well. It's easy to get attached to these characters and then have to let go of them. 10/10 in my book. [1] https://thunderlotusgames.com/spiritfarer/ https://thunderlotusgames.com/spiritfarer/

anthk 6y ago

I still play text adventures because of that. A good script can inmerse you better than most ultraHD graphics.