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I really liked Greg's response to the non-apology from the UMN researchers. Based on their communication, this research group does not have any idea of what hav

I really liked Greg's response to the non-apology from the UMN researchers. Based on their communication, this research group does not have any idea of what have they done wrong. At the very least they should have said: we're sorry, we won't do this again, and here is what we will do different next time. But frankly, this research group should have been mostly apologizing for the way they communicated with the kernel group. Slimy, underhanded attempts to play the victim and use social pressure to silence the valid criticism from the kernel group. No excuse for that in my book. I suspect it's their internal culture that was coming through. They should be nowhere near the kernel or any other important software projects.

Aperocky 6y ago
It's really hard to just say "I fucked up" I've seen it multiple time and had strong urges to do it myself. The way I see it, when such become normal is when the organization starts its painful decline.
staticassertion 6y ago
> But frankly, this research group should have been mostly apologizing for the way they communicated with the kernel group. ??? They submitted patches to the kernel based on a static analysis tool they were building, and then Greg started accusing them of malice, and banned the entire univirsity - how is it the research group that communicated poorly? Why would they not "do this again" ? They were trying to contribute to the kernel, whether their patches were low quality or not, there was no malice from this group. They haven't used any social pressure - on the contrary, it's Greg who began this inflammatory, overblown reaction to ban an entire university based on previous research done under non university affiliated email addresses. Greg made numerous false accusations against Aditya. edit: Oh and to everyone who I'm sure will just downvote, https://lwn.net/Articles/854319/ https://lwn.net/Articles/854319/ Here's kernel maintainers explaining this mess that Greg made. People are conflating multiple unrelated events because Greg did.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  There's two separate research groups involved in this, and while the one that most recently submitted patches did nothing wrong the one behind the "hypocrite commits" did.
  - mewse 6y ago
    "separate" if you ignore that they have the same faculty advisor.
    - staticassertion 6y ago
      So what? Who cares if they do? Static analysis fixes, whether they're good or bad, are harmless and not malicious. Greg attributed malice to them. I'm sure many advisors have tons of students contributing to the Kernel or other projects, every single year.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > So what? For research groups, the faculty advisor is the responsible party; once that party has been shown to act maliciously, extra scrutiny is warranted, unless there is some evidence that durable reform has occurred. (The same might be said less strongly of the institutional source, as well.) > I'm sure many advisors have tons of students contributing to the Kernel or other projects, every single year. And virtually all of them have not been—either advisor or institution—responsible for malicious kernel patches. Actions have consequences.
        staticassertion 6y ago
        > once that party has been shown to act maliciously, extra scrutiny is warranted It's nonsense that they acted maliciously. The original research was handled terribly, but it was not malicious. They intended to help, not hurt, even if they did so very poorly. Further, that is one advisor, whose name is not being dragged. Aditya's name, however, is, thanks to Greg's slanderous comments. https://twitter.com/trishalynn/status/1385410960278491137 https://twitter.com/trishalynn/status/1385410960278491137 "I am disgusted by the actions of Aditya Pakki" https://twitter.com/hedleyroos/status/1386290204298735617 https://twitter.com/hedleyroos/status/1386290204298735617 "Aditya Pakki is going to have a hard time finding employment." (this one directly retweeted Greg's post) https://twitter.com/_mackal/status/1384910754151866370 https://twitter.com/_mackal/status/1384910754151866370 "The simple fact that Aditya Pakki is so butt hurt proves this wasn't in good faith and their only reason for doing it is to shit out another hit piece. That email you quoted is fucking insane." https://twitter.com/BeardyNotes/status/1384900450059788288 https://twitter.com/BeardyNotes/status/1384900450059788288 "Sleazeballs like Aditya Pakki should be fired and disbarred from doing any "research" anywhere in the world!" https://twitter.com/seakoz/status/1384895697414148096 https://twitter.com/seakoz/status/1384895697414148096 "Aditya Pakki will forever be googleable as the guy who deliberately tried to make Linux insecure." Does that seem right to you? Are these the "consequences" you think are justified, because Aditya was trying to add legitimate patches for a tool he was working on to contribute to the kernel? Greg should publicly apologize to Aditya.

Aperocky 6y ago

It's really hard to just say "I fucked up" I've seen it multiple time and had strong urges to do it myself. The way I see it, when such become normal is when the organization starts its painful decline.

staticassertion 6y ago

> But frankly, this research group should have been mostly apologizing for the way they communicated with the kernel group. ??? They submitted patches to the kernel based on a static analysis tool they were building, and then Greg started accusing them of malice, and banned the entire univirsity - how is it the research group that communicated poorly? Why would they not "do this again" ? They were trying to contribute to the kernel, whether their patches were low quality or not, there was no malice from this group. They haven't used any social pressure - on the contrary, it's Greg who began this inflammatory, overblown reaction to ban an entire university based on previous research done under non university affiliated email addresses. Greg made numerous false accusations against Aditya. edit: Oh and to everyone who I'm sure will just downvote, https://lwn.net/Articles/854319/ https://lwn.net/Articles/854319/ Here's kernel maintainers explaining this mess that Greg made. People are conflating multiple unrelated events because Greg did.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
There's two separate research groups involved in this, and while the one that most recently submitted patches did nothing wrong the one behind the "hypocrite commits" did.
- mewse 6y ago
  "separate" if you ignore that they have the same faculty advisor.
  - staticassertion 6y ago
    So what? Who cares if they do? Static analysis fixes, whether they're good or bad, are harmless and not malicious. Greg attributed malice to them. I'm sure many advisors have tons of students contributing to the Kernel or other projects, every single year.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > So what? For research groups, the faculty advisor is the responsible party; once that party has been shown to act maliciously, extra scrutiny is warranted, unless there is some evidence that durable reform has occurred. (The same might be said less strongly of the institutional source, as well.) > I'm sure many advisors have tons of students contributing to the Kernel or other projects, every single year. And virtually all of them have not been—either advisor or institution—responsible for malicious kernel patches. Actions have consequences.
      - staticassertion 6y ago
        > once that party has been shown to act maliciously, extra scrutiny is warranted It's nonsense that they acted maliciously. The original research was handled terribly, but it was not malicious. They intended to help, not hurt, even if they did so very poorly. Further, that is one advisor, whose name is not being dragged. Aditya's name, however, is, thanks to Greg's slanderous comments. https://twitter.com/trishalynn/status/1385410960278491137 https://twitter.com/trishalynn/status/1385410960278491137 "I am disgusted by the actions of Aditya Pakki" https://twitter.com/hedleyroos/status/1386290204298735617 https://twitter.com/hedleyroos/status/1386290204298735617 "Aditya Pakki is going to have a hard time finding employment." (this one directly retweeted Greg's post) https://twitter.com/_mackal/status/1384910754151866370 https://twitter.com/_mackal/status/1384910754151866370 "The simple fact that Aditya Pakki is so butt hurt proves this wasn't in good faith and their only reason for doing it is to shit out another hit piece. That email you quoted is fucking insane." https://twitter.com/BeardyNotes/status/1384900450059788288 https://twitter.com/BeardyNotes/status/1384900450059788288 "Sleazeballs like Aditya Pakki should be fired and disbarred from doing any "research" anywhere in the world!" https://twitter.com/seakoz/status/1384895697414148096 https://twitter.com/seakoz/status/1384895697414148096 "Aditya Pakki will forever be googleable as the guy who deliberately tried to make Linux insecure." Does that seem right to you? Are these the "consequences" you think are justified, because Aditya was trying to add legitimate patches for a tool he was working on to contribute to the kernel? Greg should publicly apologize to Aditya.