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> This is just a couple of examples off the top of my head. It's all fraudulent. I'm not sure how you go from a few examples to -> "it's all fraudulent". Does

> This is just a couple of examples off the top of my head. It's all fraudulent. I'm not sure how you go from a few examples to -> "it's all fraudulent". Does crypto attract gamblers, crooks and manipulators? Yes, 100%. Does the same kind of behavior also happen on the stock market? Yes, 100%[1][2]. Hedge funds on wall street are doing all kinds of manipulations as well, it doesn't make the whole stock market fraudulent. 1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-is-archegos-and-how-did-it-rattle-the-stock-market-11617044982 https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-is-archegos-and-how-did-it... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80...

toomuchtodo 5y ago
What is the crypto equivalent of the SEC?
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  They passed a new bill giving that power to SEC and CFTC. They have already sued crypto related people/companies in the past. 1: https://www.coindesk.com/cftc-sec-us-house-representatives https://www.coindesk.com/cftc-sec-us-house-representatives 2: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-338 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-338 3: https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8270-20 https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8270-20
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
arcticbull 5y ago
What Archegos did is nothing like what any of the links I provided show. They leveraged themselves to the tits and got rekked. Happens to the most "WSB" of us - I think there was a petition to make him a mod. They didn't issue company scrip and buy up their own stock with it, then dump it on unsuspecting bag holders. Bill Hwang wouldn't be in the unemployment lines, he'd be in federal prison.
bidirectional 5y ago
How is the Archegos case manipulation? They made a terrible bet and lost lots of their own money.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  Through that opaque structure, they hid just how much exposure they had. They didn't only lose their money, credit suisse also took a huge hit [1], so did many other market participants that bought the over-inflated stocks in question. 1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/credit-suisses-5-5-billion-archegos-hit-enters-big-league-of-bank-losses-11619256601 https://www.wsj.com/articles/credit-suisses-5-5-billion-arch...
  - grey-area 5y ago
    This is true, Archegos is best viewed as fraud. The main actor has a history of fraud, and clearly chose the family office structure precisely because it has less oversight and allowed him to get away with things he couldn't do with a hedge fund (like lying to brokers about exposure). The losses will be borne by ordinary investors in Credit Suisse. If anything, this is an argument for more regulation of family offices though, and says nothing about the crypto space, which is like the wild west in comparison to this sort of family office (which at least has some reporting requirements and is governmed by the rules of a regulated market). We can't even trust the pricing and transactions on cryptocurrencies as there have been multiple instances of massive frauds perpetrated on users and there is no oversight whatsoever on exchanges.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

What is the crypto equivalent of the SEC?

rawtxapp 5y ago
They passed a new bill giving that power to SEC and CFTC. They have already sued crypto related people/companies in the past. 1: https://www.coindesk.com/cftc-sec-us-house-representatives https://www.coindesk.com/cftc-sec-us-house-representatives 2: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-338 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-338 3: https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8270-20 https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8270-20
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

arcticbull 5y ago

What Archegos did is nothing like what any of the links I provided show. They leveraged themselves to the tits and got rekked. Happens to the most "WSB" of us - I think there was a petition to make him a mod. They didn't issue company scrip and buy up their own stock with it, then dump it on unsuspecting bag holders. Bill Hwang wouldn't be in the unemployment lines, he'd be in federal prison.

bidirectional 5y ago

How is the Archegos case manipulation? They made a terrible bet and lost lots of their own money.

rawtxapp 5y ago
Through that opaque structure, they hid just how much exposure they had. They didn't only lose their money, credit suisse also took a huge hit [1], so did many other market participants that bought the over-inflated stocks in question. 1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/credit-suisses-5-5-billion-archegos-hit-enters-big-league-of-bank-losses-11619256601 https://www.wsj.com/articles/credit-suisses-5-5-billion-arch...
- grey-area 5y ago
  This is true, Archegos is best viewed as fraud. The main actor has a history of fraud, and clearly chose the family office structure precisely because it has less oversight and allowed him to get away with things he couldn't do with a hedge fund (like lying to brokers about exposure). The losses will be borne by ordinary investors in Credit Suisse. If anything, this is an argument for more regulation of family offices though, and says nothing about the crypto space, which is like the wild west in comparison to this sort of family office (which at least has some reporting requirements and is governmed by the rules of a regulated market). We can't even trust the pricing and transactions on cryptocurrencies as there have been multiple instances of massive frauds perpetrated on users and there is no oversight whatsoever on exchanges.