4 ms·

I wonder if you could lower cost by switching to narrower tunnel gauge. Also, if it's all tunnel you could evacuate some of the air to lower resistance... Oh

by Pxtl 6y ago

I wonder if you could lower cost by switching to narrower tunnel gauge. Also, if it's all tunnel you could evacuate some of the air to lower resistance... Oh crud Hyperloop finally makes sense to me.

bobthepanda 6y ago
narrower tunnel gauge either means less capacity or comfort, or sometimes both. part of why Concorde was retired was because the seats themselves were not actually comfortable, and it could not compete with more spacious business class on traditional airliners with innovations like lie flat beds.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I'm not sure the timeframes quite line up. Lie-flat seating was coming in when the Concorde was retired (after an accident and in the wake of 9/11) but I'm not sure how widespread it was. But, yes, I've been in a Concorde (not flown in one) and the seating is, at best, modern domestic--non lie-flat--business class. I actually think this is something that a lot of modern supersonic travel fans miss. If you're willing to spend the money that supersonic travel will cost you can travel very comfortably. And 12-24 hours of time spent relaxing comfortably is not actually a problem for most people.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    BA, one of the two Concorde operators, started using lie flat beds in 1999. Six hours vs three in a Concorde for JFK-LHR is totally a worthwhile trade for a cheaper fare if the six hours are mostly during sleeping hours anyways. There were definitely other problems (the aircraft was a dinosaur, with parts no longer made and a three-person crew; there was no reasonable replacement program on the horizon; the fuel costs of supersonic were hard to justify with the oil prices of the 2000s) but yeah, at some point Concorde's proposition became less and less appealing. FWIW the biggest supersonic contender these days, Boom, is specifically targeting room and per-mile costs for a modern business-class cabin of 50 people, which is a lot more workable from a business perspective. That being said, the money is not really in transatlantic (where you can sleep for 6-8 hours anyways) but in transpacific, because 12+ hours in a plane is a slog no matter how comfy the seat is.
- Pxtl 6y ago
  The narrow tunnel-gage of Boring Company is designed for cars... presumably it'd be possible to have a train vehicle with a form-factor more like stretch minivan than a bus. Lots of moving parts because many many more doors to open-close than a traditional bus or subway. But still, if stop-to-stop times are under half an hour, is it okay to seal someone in stretch-minivan-like train car without a bathroom for half an hour? I dunno. It does mean that non-stop from LA to San Jose would be right out though. Being conservative and assuming a 300km/h vehicle, you'd want at least 3 stops along the way if people are completely trapped in the vehicle without even being able to stand up, much less relieve themselves.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Cars, being a mostly private affair, are not subject to the public access regulations of public infrastructure. The bathroom is an obvious problem, and it also ties into problem # 2; the Americans with Disabilities Act. Cars and even minivans are not compliant with ADA without very expensive modification. Airplanes can afford long dwell times and dedicated personnel for people with disabilities, but as designed Boring Company/Hyperloop stuff can't accommodate this in a reasonable way.

by Pxtl 6y ago

I wonder if you could lower cost by switching to narrower tunnel gauge. Also, if it's all tunnel you could evacuate some of the air to lower resistance... Oh crud Hyperloop finally makes sense to me.

bobthepanda 6y ago

narrower tunnel gauge either means less capacity or comfort, or sometimes both. part of why Concorde was retired was because the seats themselves were not actually comfortable, and it could not compete with more spacious business class on traditional airliners with innovations like lie flat beds.

ghaff 6y ago
I'm not sure the timeframes quite line up. Lie-flat seating was coming in when the Concorde was retired (after an accident and in the wake of 9/11) but I'm not sure how widespread it was. But, yes, I've been in a Concorde (not flown in one) and the seating is, at best, modern domestic--non lie-flat--business class. I actually think this is something that a lot of modern supersonic travel fans miss. If you're willing to spend the money that supersonic travel will cost you can travel very comfortably. And 12-24 hours of time spent relaxing comfortably is not actually a problem for most people.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  BA, one of the two Concorde operators, started using lie flat beds in 1999. Six hours vs three in a Concorde for JFK-LHR is totally a worthwhile trade for a cheaper fare if the six hours are mostly during sleeping hours anyways. There were definitely other problems (the aircraft was a dinosaur, with parts no longer made and a three-person crew; there was no reasonable replacement program on the horizon; the fuel costs of supersonic were hard to justify with the oil prices of the 2000s) but yeah, at some point Concorde's proposition became less and less appealing. FWIW the biggest supersonic contender these days, Boom, is specifically targeting room and per-mile costs for a modern business-class cabin of 50 people, which is a lot more workable from a business perspective. That being said, the money is not really in transatlantic (where you can sleep for 6-8 hours anyways) but in transpacific, because 12+ hours in a plane is a slog no matter how comfy the seat is.
Pxtl 6y ago
The narrow tunnel-gage of Boring Company is designed for cars... presumably it'd be possible to have a train vehicle with a form-factor more like stretch minivan than a bus. Lots of moving parts because many many more doors to open-close than a traditional bus or subway. But still, if stop-to-stop times are under half an hour, is it okay to seal someone in stretch-minivan-like train car without a bathroom for half an hour? I dunno. It does mean that non-stop from LA to San Jose would be right out though. Being conservative and assuming a 300km/h vehicle, you'd want at least 3 stops along the way if people are completely trapped in the vehicle without even being able to stand up, much less relieve themselves.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Cars, being a mostly private affair, are not subject to the public access regulations of public infrastructure. The bathroom is an obvious problem, and it also ties into problem # 2; the Americans with Disabilities Act. Cars and even minivans are not compliant with ADA without very expensive modification. Airplanes can afford long dwell times and dedicated personnel for people with disabilities, but as designed Boring Company/Hyperloop stuff can't accommodate this in a reasonable way.