7 ms·

its still very alive in the MBSE world of SysML a superset, supported by many tools

Rochus 6y ago
And at least as useful ;-) EDIT: here a few of my thoughts on the subject in case anyone is interested: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-challenges-you-face-when-you-model-a-system-using-SysML/answer/Rochus-Keller https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-challenges-you-face-when-...
- rjsw 6y ago
  STEP (ISO 10303) is moving to use SysML to define the models for the collection of standards. Part of the reason is to be able to use visual tools instead of defining everything using text.
  - Rochus 6y ago
    The versions of ISO 10303 I'm using are based on EXPRESS and EXPRESS-G; didn't see any SysML there; this even applies to ISO 10303-233, the systems engineering AP of STEP. There is a tendency towards RDF/OWL driven by the ISO 15926 series though.
    - rjsw 6y ago
      I wrote "is moving". Nothing has been published yet that has been developed using SysML, the first standard will be the next edition of one of ISO 10303-242 or 239 or the first edition of ISO 10303-243.
      - Rochus 6y ago
        References? Why should they do that?
        rjsw 6y ago
        You can look at the minutes of any TC184/SC4 meeting for the last couple of years for a reference. I already explained why, people want to use visual tools.
        Rochus 6y ago
        Can you please be specific and provide us with current links or official documents which support your statement? I know that there are some exponents (mostly with computer science, not systems engineering background) who don't like EXPRESS and would rather use SysML, but these are just opinions, not the official roadmap which affects the ISO 10303 standard series. It's possible that there will be an official mapping from EXPRESS to SysML (as far as possible) in future to automatically generate SysML diagrams (in addition to EXPRESS-G). But it's very unlikely that SysML will replace EXPRESS or be used as an equivalent alternative. EDIT: I remember similar discussions in the nineties when UML supporters questioned the appropriateness of EXPRESS.
        rjsw 6y ago
        There are some tools [1] to allow the "harvesting" of existing EXPRESS models into SysML and to export XSD, JSON or EXPRESS schemas for delivery with the published standards. There will also be a way to map between existing models and new ones. The driver for this is to try to provide a way for ISO 10303-242 and ISO 10303-239 to interoperate better. SysML is also replacing the use of IDEF0 for the high-level requirements diagrams, finding IDEF0 software was getting too hard. [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/canonical-xmi-tools/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/canonical-xmi-tools/
        Rochus 6y ago
        That's apparently a tool to exchange UML diagrams using XMI. There is even an EXPRESS meta model by the OMG (to automatically generate UML projections from EXPRESS specifications, not updated since 2015). No conclusions can be drawn from this about the roadmap of the ISO working groups regarding future editions of ISO 10303. However, you had referred to minutes of TC184/SC4 where decisions regarding the use of SysML should have been made. These minutes, or an official roadmap from ISO, where the use of SysML is foreseen, would interest me (and a lot of others too, I suppose).

And at least as useful ;-) EDIT: here a few of my thoughts on the subject in case anyone is interested: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-challenges-you-face-when-you-model-a-system-using-SysML/answer/Rochus-Keller https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-challenges-you-face-when-...

rjsw 6y ago
STEP (ISO 10303) is moving to use SysML to define the models for the collection of standards. Part of the reason is to be able to use visual tools instead of defining everything using text.
- Rochus 6y ago
  The versions of ISO 10303 I'm using are based on EXPRESS and EXPRESS-G; didn't see any SysML there; this even applies to ISO 10303-233, the systems engineering AP of STEP. There is a tendency towards RDF/OWL driven by the ISO 15926 series though.
  - rjsw 6y ago
    I wrote "is moving". Nothing has been published yet that has been developed using SysML, the first standard will be the next edition of one of ISO 10303-242 or 239 or the first edition of ISO 10303-243.
    - Rochus 6y ago
      References? Why should they do that?
      - rjsw 6y ago
        You can look at the minutes of any TC184/SC4 meeting for the last couple of years for a reference. I already explained why, people want to use visual tools.
        Rochus 6y ago
        Can you please be specific and provide us with current links or official documents which support your statement? I know that there are some exponents (mostly with computer science, not systems engineering background) who don't like EXPRESS and would rather use SysML, but these are just opinions, not the official roadmap which affects the ISO 10303 standard series. It's possible that there will be an official mapping from EXPRESS to SysML (as far as possible) in future to automatically generate SysML diagrams (in addition to EXPRESS-G). But it's very unlikely that SysML will replace EXPRESS or be used as an equivalent alternative. EDIT: I remember similar discussions in the nineties when UML supporters questioned the appropriateness of EXPRESS.
        rjsw 6y ago
        There are some tools [1] to allow the "harvesting" of existing EXPRESS models into SysML and to export XSD, JSON or EXPRESS schemas for delivery with the published standards. There will also be a way to map between existing models and new ones. The driver for this is to try to provide a way for ISO 10303-242 and ISO 10303-239 to interoperate better. SysML is also replacing the use of IDEF0 for the high-level requirements diagrams, finding IDEF0 software was getting too hard. [1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/canonical-xmi-tools/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/canonical-xmi-tools/
        Rochus 6y ago
        That's apparently a tool to exchange UML diagrams using XMI. There is even an EXPRESS meta model by the OMG (to automatically generate UML projections from EXPRESS specifications, not updated since 2015). No conclusions can be drawn from this about the roadmap of the ISO working groups regarding future editions of ISO 10303. However, you had referred to minutes of TC184/SC4 where decisions regarding the use of SysML should have been made. These minutes, or an official roadmap from ISO, where the use of SysML is foreseen, would interest me (and a lot of others too, I suppose).