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TLDR: Yes, but deceiving a subject about the details of how they are being studied is different from deceiving them about the fact that they are a research subj

TLDR: Yes, but deceiving a subject about the details of how they are being studied is different from deceiving them about the fact that they are a research subject. Yes, this happens all the time. But note the salient features: (1) the subjects are aware that they are research subjects and have agreed to participate (albeit without full knowledge of how the collected data will be analyzed). They have agreed to be studied, and have agreed that their time may be used in pursuit of this research. (2) All such studies undergo a very stringent ethical review and are usually monitored closely by third parties (at least since Milgram made it extremely clear that this was a necessary policy). These issues are complex and difficult to navigate---which is precisely why we have review boards. Every experiment has to be evaluated to balance the requirement to act ethically with the value of the research data to be collected. Skipping that requirement is unacceptable. In my experience, the moment a research team starts looking for reasons not to classify what they are doing as human experimentation is the moment when it becomes extremely clear that they need board review.

neatze 5y ago
Out of curiosity, study where humans are deceived about the fact that they are research subjects can be justified in general ? (to me seems like correct answer no) Some relevant cases; the Facebook case[0] suggests it is justified because of EULA, and court determination test[1] is complicated for me to comprehend (to be honest), but seems like most relevant to this discussion. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every... [1] https://casetext.com/case/sandvig-v-barr https://casetext.com/case/sandvig-v-barr
- ajarmst 5y ago
  I'm not qualified to comment on legal issues and contracts. In the case of EULAs, my understanding is that no contract where you surrender fundamental rights is valid or enforceable. But even then, I'd want a lawyers advice before assuming it. And, of course, that's a good argument for reading EULAs very carefully. I've learned over several decades that any simple pronouncement that "X is ethical/unethical" is an effective way of ensuring that you will be wrong about some particular case. Yes, I think there might be cases where it is justified, but it would be very rare and require extremely careful monitoring and review. Two areas where it might come up would be medical research and research on children or adults of diminished capacity. In the former, there might be situations where the value of the research to the collective health and safety of the entire community would be sufficient to balance the use of such deception. In the latter, it may not be possible for your subjects to give informed consent (side note: this is, of course, also a ethical problem in experimentation on animals). The ethical dimensions of parents or guardians consenting to experimentation on their charges is extremely complex. I will go out on a short limb and assert that ethical experimentation using that sort of deception depends a great deal on the details of a given case. Very subtle changes in the experimental protocol could easily change its ethical acceptability. P.S: And, of course, there are a vast number of things that are completely legal but absolutely unethical.
  - neatze 5y ago
    Hopefully you see this, Department response to the Linux Foundation[0], does not matter how I look at it, it does not makes sense to, because deceit requires investigator(s) to participate in the activities being observed[1]. [0] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z3Nm2bfR4tH1nOGBpuOmLyoJVEiO9cUq/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z3Nm2bfR4tH1nOGBpuOmLyoJVEi... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/45/46.104#d_2_iii https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/45/46.104#d_2_iii

neatze 5y ago

Out of curiosity, study where humans are deceived about the fact that they are research subjects can be justified in general ? (to me seems like correct answer no) Some relevant cases; the Facebook case[0] suggests it is justified because of EULA, and court determination test[1] is complicated for me to comprehend (to be honest), but seems like most relevant to this discussion. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every... [1] https://casetext.com/case/sandvig-v-barr https://casetext.com/case/sandvig-v-barr

ajarmst 5y ago
I'm not qualified to comment on legal issues and contracts. In the case of EULAs, my understanding is that no contract where you surrender fundamental rights is valid or enforceable. But even then, I'd want a lawyers advice before assuming it. And, of course, that's a good argument for reading EULAs very carefully. I've learned over several decades that any simple pronouncement that "X is ethical/unethical" is an effective way of ensuring that you will be wrong about some particular case. Yes, I think there might be cases where it is justified, but it would be very rare and require extremely careful monitoring and review. Two areas where it might come up would be medical research and research on children or adults of diminished capacity. In the former, there might be situations where the value of the research to the collective health and safety of the entire community would be sufficient to balance the use of such deception. In the latter, it may not be possible for your subjects to give informed consent (side note: this is, of course, also a ethical problem in experimentation on animals). The ethical dimensions of parents or guardians consenting to experimentation on their charges is extremely complex. I will go out on a short limb and assert that ethical experimentation using that sort of deception depends a great deal on the details of a given case. Very subtle changes in the experimental protocol could easily change its ethical acceptability. P.S: And, of course, there are a vast number of things that are completely legal but absolutely unethical.
- neatze 5y ago
  Hopefully you see this, Department response to the Linux Foundation[0], does not matter how I look at it, it does not makes sense to, because deceit requires investigator(s) to participate in the activities being observed[1]. [0] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z3Nm2bfR4tH1nOGBpuOmLyoJVEiO9cUq/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z3Nm2bfR4tH1nOGBpuOmLyoJVEi... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/45/46.104#d_2_iii https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/45/46.104#d_2_iii