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Just a tip that I have used, take it or leave it. The US govt. publishes their pay scale openly and the level of experience for jobs that go with them. I say to
by dccoolgai 5y ago
Just a tip that I have used, take it or leave it. The US govt. publishes their pay scale openly and the level of experience for jobs that go with them. I say to the recruiter: "If I took this position with govt., I would get paid xty-thousand... And that's just bare minimum... That comes with insane levels of job security... Does this position offer that kind of security? No? Hmmm... also govt comes with crazy high pension benefits that you don't have... What do you think we should do to bring that number closer to market reality?"
- lolinder 5y agoWhere do you find these pay scales?
- dlgeek 5y agohttps://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2021/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...
- hctaw 5y agoWow. Is there any resource on what the tiers correspond to in terms of title and experience?
- dccoolgai 5y agoYou can cross-ref that with the USA Jobs site, which usually (I think?) lists the O-level of the position. What I usually do is: Find job on USAJOBS most like the one you're applying for and take note of the GS- or O- level and then go to the other site and see how much a GS-12 or whatever makes where you live: This is now your absolute floor if the company you're applying to offers the same level of benefits as the govt. (Hint: they don't)
- gkolli 5y agohttps://www.usajobs.gov/ https://www.usajobs.gov/ is a good resource as well , for example, for a software engineering position: https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/590441900 https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/590441900
- brailsafe 5y agoThis is a great strategy. You're using a concrete example and asking them to help you solve the problem.
- dccoolgai 5y agoIt also takes away from them the riposte of "you're full of shit" or "that number is crazy" because it comes from the biggest Human Resources dept on the planet. It's maybe my favorite interview tactic I've come up with, both for negotiation value and from keeping people from wasting my time. "You're not even going to pay more than the government, even though you have shit benefits by comparison? Adios. Don't call yourself competitive."
- dccoolgai 5y agoIn strategic terms it also "inverts the information asymmetry" they like to exploit; "We're a company and you're just one person with an idea of how much you should make" becomes "You're just a little company, this is what the largest employer anywhere thinks I'm worth".
- asperous 5y agoUnfortunately the government matrix for programmers underpays entry level positions. For example, here’s an open entry level programming job open right now: http://usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/599153100 http://usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/599153100 But at least it’s out in the open, saves people time if they are expecting more then that.
- kube-system 5y agoThat is not at all underpaid for an entry level position unless you are comparing solely to FAANG. There are plenty of experienced engineers in OH or NC making that level of salary.
- krallja 5y agoNo, not in Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC. FMV for an entry level software engineer is at least 15% higher than that.
- kube-system 5y agoPayscale.com says 47k-95k Monster.com doesn’t have a filter for years of experience, but says 70k at the low end Dice.com says 62k-84k
- xentripetal 5y agoyeah, 72k (+15k bonus) is what I make as entry level data engineer in Arkansas. It's underpaid for the industry but twice the median pay in my city.
- blaser-waffle 5y agoWhat's the cost of a house in them parts?