2 ms·

The title is confusing, indeed. She's trying to say, 'Men: Don't apologize for the situation'. And I totally disagree. As a man, I know what happens when we

The title is confusing, indeed. She's trying to say, 'Men: Don't apologize for the situation'. And I totally disagree. As a man, I know what happens when we don't: We get lambasted for not caring. We do care. We care enough to apologize and defend. While I haven't worked with a female programmer, the ones I met socially were very competent. The female QA Testers I've worked with have been amazing. Even the female phone tech support reps I've worked with have been great. (For the record, most of the males filling those positions were better than average. I'm not disparaging them.) The negative stereotype of women and science/tech/etc is undeserved and wrong. But ignoring the situation is not the answer. Not-apologizing is a form of ignoring it. It doesn't help the situation at all. Apologizing, however, shows support and that the vocal minority are just that: A minority.

bellaire 15y ago
You can other things to show that you give a damn besides apologizing, which is kind of her point. Would a woman apologize to another woman about the behavior of a crude man? No, because she hasn't done anything wrong. Apologizing explicitly externalizes women as being outside your group. You're saying "gee, I'm sorry one of us did that to one of you." That just reinforces the idea that "Women in Tech" are a separate entity from "People in Tech". She's asking you to stay at the "People in Tech" level. Not-apologizing isn't a form if ignoring. There are many other things you can do than pretend to be part of the offending group so that you can apologize. If a caucasian American said to an African-American, "Gee, I'm sorry about slavery, that was really wrong of us", that would be horribly offensive, wouldn't it? Are we all in this together or not?
- michellegreer1 15y ago
  You hit the nail on the head, bellaire. The best thing you can do is support competent people and call out people who bring others down. It doesn't matter if someone is a woman, African American, or has a crazy lisp or something. If someone brings value into the workplace, which according to research, women do, we should protect them for the sake of us all. I don't want apologies. I want you to have my back, because I'll always have yours if you are good people.
etruong42 15y ago
She may not have what you just expressed in mind, but she is also trying to cultivate a culture where men would not be criticized for not apologizing for another man's sexist remarks after the fact.
lucian1900 15y ago
No, NEVER apologise for something another man did. It's not your responsibility. Just ignore/mock them, help their victims if necessary and keep on being a nice guy. Apologising even makes things a little worse (implies you have more in common with that particular man than your [female] audience).

bellaire 15y ago

You can other things to show that you give a damn besides apologizing, which is kind of her point. Would a woman apologize to another woman about the behavior of a crude man? No, because she hasn't done anything wrong. Apologizing explicitly externalizes women as being outside your group. You're saying "gee, I'm sorry one of us did that to one of you." That just reinforces the idea that "Women in Tech" are a separate entity from "People in Tech". She's asking you to stay at the "People in Tech" level. Not-apologizing isn't a form if ignoring. There are many other things you can do than pretend to be part of the offending group so that you can apologize. If a caucasian American said to an African-American, "Gee, I'm sorry about slavery, that was really wrong of us", that would be horribly offensive, wouldn't it? Are we all in this together or not?

michellegreer1 15y ago
You hit the nail on the head, bellaire. The best thing you can do is support competent people and call out people who bring others down. It doesn't matter if someone is a woman, African American, or has a crazy lisp or something. If someone brings value into the workplace, which according to research, women do, we should protect them for the sake of us all. I don't want apologies. I want you to have my back, because I'll always have yours if you are good people.

etruong42 15y ago

She may not have what you just expressed in mind, but she is also trying to cultivate a culture where men would not be criticized for not apologizing for another man's sexist remarks after the fact.

lucian1900 15y ago

No, NEVER apologise for something another man did. It's not your responsibility. Just ignore/mock them, help their victims if necessary and keep on being a nice guy. Apologising even makes things a little worse (implies you have more in common with that particular man than your [female] audience).