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> Amtrak leases all tracks they use with the highest priority. Not in any useful way: freight delays passenger trains in the US with impunity. http://blog.amt

> Amtrak leases all tracks they use with the highest priority. Not in any useful way: freight delays passenger trains in the US with impunity. http://blog.amtrak.com/2019/05/why-are-amtrak-trains-delayed-by-freight-trains/ http://blog.amtrak.com/2019/05/why-are-amtrak-trains-delayed...

tedunangst 5y ago
My understanding is that's a somewhat deceptive description, but would appreciate clarification. Amtrak has priority in that when they lease the line, they select the time their train runs, and freight schedules around. But if Amtrak is delayed, the freight train doesn't have to jump off the tracks to clear space.
- gimmeThaBeet 5y ago
  My experience (Norfolk Southern and CSX operate the tracks in my area) is that I am learning that amtrak is supposed to have priority right here. My personal experience has been almost the opposite. Knock on wood, in my recollection I've never experienced any other significant delay except freight traffic interference. But like, on separate occasions, I've had a 4+ hour delay from Chicago to Buffalo (~8 hour drive), couple hours through NY State, had a 20 minute stop in Syracuse turn into 1.5 hours, all due to freight traffic. I assume the train is going to arrive where I'm going like an hour late at least. The only significant thing that wasn't freight related, is they split the train in Albany when you are going to NYC or Boston. The second train had some issues, so it took a bit to get a different one, so we were sitting there without power in like, July for an hour or so.
- jcranmer 5y ago
  While that is true, there are a few freight companies that don't particularly care about the priority situation, so that they don't care about causing the initial delay that causes the loss of priority.
- hedora 5y ago
  The bigger issue is that the freight companies control line maintenance. The upshot is that there’s no incentive to straighten the tracks to run them at higher than freight train speeds. For example, on the San Jose <-> Oakland commuter line (which has existed for decades!), Amtrak runs trains with top speeds of 120mph (or was it 85?) at something closer to a top speed of 45mph. Edit: Also, the freight line routes no longer make sense. For instance, they run through a pedestrian plaza in Jack London square to an ecological restoration area in south bay, where most factories have been shut down. (There are still salt ponds, but that salt evaporation plant is slowly being shut down in an ecologically responsible way, as I understand it). I think they should give the freight company imminent domain rights to run a line due east (to sparsely populated areas), allowing the freight lines to run unimpeded by Bay Area rush hour and pedestrians. In exchange, the freight lines would give their existing right of way to commuter rail systems. Also, while I’m dreaming, Bart would be converted to standard track width, and they’d restore the Palo Alto to Santa Cruz commuter rail lines. Then, all the systems would be put under a single authority, and all the transfers between the existing systems would be timed transfers.
  - schoen 5y ago
    > imminent domain Should be "eminent". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eminent_domain https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eminent_domain It's amazing to see the trains running at-grade right through a busy downtown street in Oakland; I feel like I've never seen that anywhere else! (Except in Inception as part of a nightmare, maybe.)
  - ac29 5y ago
    > I think they should give the freight company imminent domain rights to run a line due east Due east from where? San Jose? Having just driven that way last week over Hwy 130 - it is rugged mountainous terrain that would be quite expensive to develop with rail. Pretty though, and worth the drive in the spring for those who live in the south bay if you have a reason to take the long way out to the valley.
- crazygringo 5y ago
  That would seem rather circular, since Amtrak delays are almost always caused by freight trains. (Unless it's horrible snow blizzard weather or something.) My personal experience is that having taken Amtrak from NYC a huge number of times, it's never been meaningfully delayed leaving Penn Station. But that it will get delayed en route, as the train comes to a halt and the conductor announces we're waiting for a freight train. We wait for 10 or 15 minutes, the freight train takes a couple minutes to whiz by, and then we start moving again. So I don't know what priority Amtrak has on paper, but in reality Amtrak trains that leave on time are delayed by freight. So much so that for my return trip where I catch a train that's already been en route for 8+ hours, it's virtually always 30-90 minutes late.
  - anaerobicover 5y ago
    I want to corroborate this. I have ridden between NYC, Boston, and Chicago dozens of times, a very nice trip. Heading west, we generally to Albany-Renssalear on time, make the connection, and proceed on time. Even in winter snow. The number of times it has not been delayed by freight after that, crossing upstate New York, numbers in the single digits. For some reason eastbound seems to fare better, but still no guarantees.
    - gimmeThaBeet 5y ago
      100% agree. The Late Shore Limited is in fact not a lazy joke.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Delays can have cascading effects. And if a freight train is delayed, or breaks down on a crossing track at 5:00pm, it's not like it can get out of the way just because Amtrak is scheduled to go through at 5:15.

tedunangst 5y ago

My understanding is that's a somewhat deceptive description, but would appreciate clarification. Amtrak has priority in that when they lease the line, they select the time their train runs, and freight schedules around. But if Amtrak is delayed, the freight train doesn't have to jump off the tracks to clear space.

gimmeThaBeet 5y ago
My experience (Norfolk Southern and CSX operate the tracks in my area) is that I am learning that amtrak is supposed to have priority right here. My personal experience has been almost the opposite. Knock on wood, in my recollection I've never experienced any other significant delay except freight traffic interference. But like, on separate occasions, I've had a 4+ hour delay from Chicago to Buffalo (~8 hour drive), couple hours through NY State, had a 20 minute stop in Syracuse turn into 1.5 hours, all due to freight traffic. I assume the train is going to arrive where I'm going like an hour late at least. The only significant thing that wasn't freight related, is they split the train in Albany when you are going to NYC or Boston. The second train had some issues, so it took a bit to get a different one, so we were sitting there without power in like, July for an hour or so.
jcranmer 5y ago
While that is true, there are a few freight companies that don't particularly care about the priority situation, so that they don't care about causing the initial delay that causes the loss of priority.
hedora 5y ago
The bigger issue is that the freight companies control line maintenance. The upshot is that there’s no incentive to straighten the tracks to run them at higher than freight train speeds. For example, on the San Jose <-> Oakland commuter line (which has existed for decades!), Amtrak runs trains with top speeds of 120mph (or was it 85?) at something closer to a top speed of 45mph. Edit: Also, the freight line routes no longer make sense. For instance, they run through a pedestrian plaza in Jack London square to an ecological restoration area in south bay, where most factories have been shut down. (There are still salt ponds, but that salt evaporation plant is slowly being shut down in an ecologically responsible way, as I understand it). I think they should give the freight company imminent domain rights to run a line due east (to sparsely populated areas), allowing the freight lines to run unimpeded by Bay Area rush hour and pedestrians. In exchange, the freight lines would give their existing right of way to commuter rail systems. Also, while I’m dreaming, Bart would be converted to standard track width, and they’d restore the Palo Alto to Santa Cruz commuter rail lines. Then, all the systems would be put under a single authority, and all the transfers between the existing systems would be timed transfers.
- schoen 5y ago
  > imminent domain Should be "eminent". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eminent_domain https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eminent_domain It's amazing to see the trains running at-grade right through a busy downtown street in Oakland; I feel like I've never seen that anywhere else! (Except in Inception as part of a nightmare, maybe.)
- ac29 5y ago
  > I think they should give the freight company imminent domain rights to run a line due east Due east from where? San Jose? Having just driven that way last week over Hwy 130 - it is rugged mountainous terrain that would be quite expensive to develop with rail. Pretty though, and worth the drive in the spring for those who live in the south bay if you have a reason to take the long way out to the valley.
crazygringo 5y ago
That would seem rather circular, since Amtrak delays are almost always caused by freight trains. (Unless it's horrible snow blizzard weather or something.) My personal experience is that having taken Amtrak from NYC a huge number of times, it's never been meaningfully delayed leaving Penn Station. But that it will get delayed en route, as the train comes to a halt and the conductor announces we're waiting for a freight train. We wait for 10 or 15 minutes, the freight train takes a couple minutes to whiz by, and then we start moving again. So I don't know what priority Amtrak has on paper, but in reality Amtrak trains that leave on time are delayed by freight. So much so that for my return trip where I catch a train that's already been en route for 8+ hours, it's virtually always 30-90 minutes late.
- anaerobicover 5y ago
  I want to corroborate this. I have ridden between NYC, Boston, and Chicago dozens of times, a very nice trip. Heading west, we generally to Albany-Renssalear on time, make the connection, and proceed on time. Even in winter snow. The number of times it has not been delayed by freight after that, crossing upstate New York, numbers in the single digits. For some reason eastbound seems to fare better, but still no guarantees.
  - gimmeThaBeet 5y ago
    100% agree. The Late Shore Limited is in fact not a lazy joke.
throwawayboise 5y ago
Delays can have cascading effects. And if a freight train is delayed, or breaks down on a crossing track at 5:00pm, it's not like it can get out of the way just because Amtrak is scheduled to go through at 5:15.