6 ms·

I always assumed they would be available as long as Apple or iTunes doesn't go under. Guess i'm not a reasonable consumer but luckily I haven't spent much money

I always assumed they would be available as long as Apple or iTunes doesn't go under. Guess i'm not a reasonable consumer but luckily I haven't spent much money on them.

joshmanders 5y ago
I've spent a lot of money on iTunes content (Nearing 1,000 purchased movies on AppleTV), and my assumption was the same. As long as Apple/iTunes doesn't go under, and given I don't do anything to violate Apple's terms, I will have access to this content. I understand I can lose access, I'm not paying for the content in the idea that I own it forever even if Apple goes under or I get terminated, but I have perpetual access to it given the circumstances don't change, and I pay for the convenience of this. If I had expected to own it forever, I'd probably have bought DVD's, not digital.
- interestica 5y ago
  > If I had expected to own it forever, I'd probably have bought DVD's, not digital. This is the opposite of what it should be. DVDs degrade over time, and can last for as little as 10 years. Digital should be mean transportable and convertible indefinitely.
  - joshmanders 5y ago
    Sure but who's gonna pay to keep those servers up in perpetuity? I would never buy digital thinking I'll have access indefinitely. At least with DVD's I can rip them and burn them on new DVD's if I wanted them to be "forever"
    - scatters 5y ago
      The company can use part of your purchase price to buy a long term debt instrument (e.g. a 30-year T-bond) and use the yield to keep the server running. Or, more realistically and prosaically, they can and should debit the net present liability of keeping the server running in perpetuity from their corporate accounts at the time of purchase. Accountancy knows how to value such things and finance delights in monetizing them.
    - interestica 5y ago
      Make DRM free versions available for download? Music has had to go that route so that people can 'own' their downloads. Maybe a self-hosted auth server of some kind is possible? Adobe recently stopped letting you install CS3 even if you have the CDs because they took the auth server down. Do you think there was a reasonable expectation that when someone paid thousands of dollars for those discs, that they 'owned' them and had the right to install them repeatedly on their own computers? >https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite.html https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite.html >You can no longer reinstall Creative Suite 2, 3 or 4 even if you have the original installation disks. The aging activation servers for those apps had to be retired. Looks like they just added CS4 to the list...which is still usable software (and in fact offers features that are currently unavailable!)
  - noisem4ker 5y ago
    Do printed DVDs last that little? That sounds more like the lifespan of burned discs.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      From experience, yes, they can. Make backups of the DVDs, CDs and Blu-ray discs you care about.
    - interestica 5y ago
      It's mostly dependent on heat, humidity, and light. And then of course handling. And the actual player and how much it might contact the disc (eg inserting in certain slot drives repeatedly can brush dust/dirt on the surface).
Vespasian 5y ago
Apple and friends will do their best to avoid a ruling and laws which could establish this interpretation because it would end their practice to terminate accounts with the reason "Computer says no". When contracting with consumers these companies should be forced to be liable and accountable for their algorithmic decisions and arbitrary policy enforcement. That wouldn't be unreasonable at all. "They clicked the accept EULA button" is not a valid excuse. Pretending that consumers are able to negotiate a fair contract with Apple is denying reality.
- mguerville 5y ago
  Especially because every so often we as consumers get an email saying “we made some updates to the EULA / ToS, here’s the full 50 pages document without any markup as to what actually changed, you are now bound by these new terms that aren’t exactly the ones you initially agreed to”
  - sbarre 5y ago
    Except in the terms you initially agreed to, you also agreed to let them change the terms at their discretion. (To be clear, I think that's BS, but that's how this happens).
  - number6 5y ago
    Or you can reject and loose all your "bought" Goods.
visarga 5y ago
> Guess i'm not a reasonable consumer but luckily I haven't spent much money on them. I used to have an account on which I spent at least $400. After an attempt to change the email address associated to the account I got locked out. It seems the same email address was used to create a different account in the past and the move just destroyed my access and any possible recourse. So I switched to Android and stayed on Android for the last 7 years. No more iPhones for me, just remembering how my content got stolen makes me turn away. I used to be a big fan of iPhones when they came out, even had a first gen iPhone a couple of months after launch. But after losing access to my content it all turned into the feeling that I am being abused.
- hallway_monitor 5y ago
  Never had the feeling of being abused but I didn't like having to buy into their closed ecosystem so I've been an Android user and programmer ever since my iPhone 3G.
- rochak 5y ago
  And people look at me with gaze when I tell them that I don’t want iCloud. I would much rather pay for a service I can use on any platform so that I can switch out of Apple whenever I want to. Apple fanboys will grill me for this, but at least I will be saving my future self from headaches.
utopcell 5y ago
It's not until Apple goes under: it's until whatever licensing deal Apple got for some movie is over.
SoiGubz 5y ago
But Apple didn't go under, they cut the victim off.

I always assumed they would be available as long as Apple or iTunes doesn't go under. Guess i'm not a reasonable consumer but luckily I haven't spent much money on them.

joshmanders 5y ago

I've spent a lot of money on iTunes content (Nearing 1,000 purchased movies on AppleTV), and my assumption was the same. As long as Apple/iTunes doesn't go under, and given I don't do anything to violate Apple's terms, I will have access to this content. I understand I can lose access, I'm not paying for the content in the idea that I own it forever even if Apple goes under or I get terminated, but I have perpetual access to it given the circumstances don't change, and I pay for the convenience of this. If I had expected to own it forever, I'd probably have bought DVD's, not digital.

interestica 5y ago
> If I had expected to own it forever, I'd probably have bought DVD's, not digital. This is the opposite of what it should be. DVDs degrade over time, and can last for as little as 10 years. Digital should be mean transportable and convertible indefinitely.
- joshmanders 5y ago
  Sure but who's gonna pay to keep those servers up in perpetuity? I would never buy digital thinking I'll have access indefinitely. At least with DVD's I can rip them and burn them on new DVD's if I wanted them to be "forever"
  - scatters 5y ago
    The company can use part of your purchase price to buy a long term debt instrument (e.g. a 30-year T-bond) and use the yield to keep the server running. Or, more realistically and prosaically, they can and should debit the net present liability of keeping the server running in perpetuity from their corporate accounts at the time of purchase. Accountancy knows how to value such things and finance delights in monetizing them.
  - interestica 5y ago
    Make DRM free versions available for download? Music has had to go that route so that people can 'own' their downloads. Maybe a self-hosted auth server of some kind is possible? Adobe recently stopped letting you install CS3 even if you have the CDs because they took the auth server down. Do you think there was a reasonable expectation that when someone paid thousands of dollars for those discs, that they 'owned' them and had the right to install them repeatedly on their own computers? >https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite.html https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite.html >You can no longer reinstall Creative Suite 2, 3 or 4 even if you have the original installation disks. The aging activation servers for those apps had to be retired. Looks like they just added CS4 to the list...which is still usable software (and in fact offers features that are currently unavailable!)
- noisem4ker 5y ago
  Do printed DVDs last that little? That sounds more like the lifespan of burned discs.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    From experience, yes, they can. Make backups of the DVDs, CDs and Blu-ray discs you care about.
  - interestica 5y ago
    It's mostly dependent on heat, humidity, and light. And then of course handling. And the actual player and how much it might contact the disc (eg inserting in certain slot drives repeatedly can brush dust/dirt on the surface).

Vespasian 5y ago

Apple and friends will do their best to avoid a ruling and laws which could establish this interpretation because it would end their practice to terminate accounts with the reason "Computer says no". When contracting with consumers these companies should be forced to be liable and accountable for their algorithmic decisions and arbitrary policy enforcement. That wouldn't be unreasonable at all. "They clicked the accept EULA button" is not a valid excuse. Pretending that consumers are able to negotiate a fair contract with Apple is denying reality.

mguerville 5y ago
Especially because every so often we as consumers get an email saying “we made some updates to the EULA / ToS, here’s the full 50 pages document without any markup as to what actually changed, you are now bound by these new terms that aren’t exactly the ones you initially agreed to”
- sbarre 5y ago
  Except in the terms you initially agreed to, you also agreed to let them change the terms at their discretion. (To be clear, I think that's BS, but that's how this happens).
- number6 5y ago
  Or you can reject and loose all your "bought" Goods.

visarga 5y ago

> Guess i'm not a reasonable consumer but luckily I haven't spent much money on them. I used to have an account on which I spent at least $400. After an attempt to change the email address associated to the account I got locked out. It seems the same email address was used to create a different account in the past and the move just destroyed my access and any possible recourse. So I switched to Android and stayed on Android for the last 7 years. No more iPhones for me, just remembering how my content got stolen makes me turn away. I used to be a big fan of iPhones when they came out, even had a first gen iPhone a couple of months after launch. But after losing access to my content it all turned into the feeling that I am being abused.

hallway_monitor 5y ago
Never had the feeling of being abused but I didn't like having to buy into their closed ecosystem so I've been an Android user and programmer ever since my iPhone 3G.
rochak 5y ago
And people look at me with gaze when I tell them that I don’t want iCloud. I would much rather pay for a service I can use on any platform so that I can switch out of Apple whenever I want to. Apple fanboys will grill me for this, but at least I will be saving my future self from headaches.

utopcell 5y ago

It's not until Apple goes under: it's until whatever licensing deal Apple got for some movie is over.

SoiGubz 5y ago

But Apple didn't go under, they cut the victim off.