20 ms·

I think it’s a combination of 3 factors: 1) once in a century severe droughts in Taiwan force water rationing, chip production needs A LOT of water 2) stockpi

by nnx 5y ago

I think it’s a combination of 3 factors: 1) once in a century severe droughts in Taiwan force water rationing, chip production needs A LOT of water 2) stockpiling from China manufacturers (eg. Huawei) who want to mitigate real or potential US sanctions 3) generally higher demand in some sectors due to covid situation (incl. WFH and stimulus) (1) is probably the major factor, with others exacerbating it, see https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56798308 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56798308

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
matheweis 5y ago
I find it ironic that TSMC is building their shiny new 1100 acre fab in Arizona of all places [1], even as one of their main water sources is drying up [2]. You’d think someone in charge is thinking about these things. [1] https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2021/03/02/taiwan-semiconductor-phoenix-plant-35-billion.html https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2021/03/02/taiwan-s... [2] https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2021/04/06/colorado-river-drought-deepens-arizona-prepares-water-cutbacks/4808587001/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environme...
- bsder 5y ago
  Arizona has fab construction expertise, engineers and cheap workers. You have to put your new fab someplace useful or you have to import everybody. So, that cuts the number of places to a handful in the US. Texas, because TI, AMD, NXP nee Freescale nee Motorola. Idaho, because Micron. Oregon, because Intel. Arizona, because Intel and NXP. New York, because IBM. California, because everybody. If you're not doing massive R&D at the fab, you want cheap workers more than you want location to universities. That knocks out California and New York. As we just found out, Texas has weather so maybe not a great place for a 24/7 fab. Can you imagine TSMC personnel dealing with winter? So, probably not Idaho. So, Oregon or Arizona. I suspect Oregon is more expensive than Arizona in the places you want to put a fab.
  - totalZero 5y ago
    There's also the consideration of energy costs, as well as freight corridor proximity. AZ/NM is a sweet spot for most of these factors.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
> chip production needs A LOT of water Why is that? I would expect chip production to be a relatively small scale process compared to almost any other industries, simply due to the small amount of material involved. For example, how many CPU dies can you fit in a shampoo bottle or a pack of printer paper?
- burnished 5y ago
  I can't say for certain, I am guessing they may use it to clean in between layers (additive and subtractive)? This article[1] supports the high water use but does not explain in greater detail to what ends it is specifically used. [1] https://www.sustainalytics.com/esg-research/investors-esg-blog/waste-not-want-not-water-use-in-the-semiconductor-industry#:~:text=The%20demand%20for%20chips%20is,the%20contamination%20of%20electronic%20devices https://www.sustainalytics.com/esg-research/investors-esg-bl....

by nnx 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

matheweis 5y ago

I find it ironic that TSMC is building their shiny new 1100 acre fab in Arizona of all places [1], even as one of their main water sources is drying up [2]. You’d think someone in charge is thinking about these things. [1] https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2021/03/02/taiwan-semiconductor-phoenix-plant-35-billion.html https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2021/03/02/taiwan-s... [2] https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2021/04/06/colorado-river-drought-deepens-arizona-prepares-water-cutbacks/4808587001/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environme...

bsder 5y ago
Arizona has fab construction expertise, engineers and cheap workers. You have to put your new fab someplace useful or you have to import everybody. So, that cuts the number of places to a handful in the US. Texas, because TI, AMD, NXP nee Freescale nee Motorola. Idaho, because Micron. Oregon, because Intel. Arizona, because Intel and NXP. New York, because IBM. California, because everybody. If you're not doing massive R&D at the fab, you want cheap workers more than you want location to universities. That knocks out California and New York. As we just found out, Texas has weather so maybe not a great place for a 24/7 fab. Can you imagine TSMC personnel dealing with winter? So, probably not Idaho. So, Oregon or Arizona. I suspect Oregon is more expensive than Arizona in the places you want to put a fab.
- totalZero 5y ago
  There's also the consideration of energy costs, as well as freight corridor proximity. AZ/NM is a sweet spot for most of these factors.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

> chip production needs A LOT of water Why is that? I would expect chip production to be a relatively small scale process compared to almost any other industries, simply due to the small amount of material involved. For example, how many CPU dies can you fit in a shampoo bottle or a pack of printer paper?

burnished 5y ago
I can't say for certain, I am guessing they may use it to clean in between layers (additive and subtractive)? This article[1] supports the high water use but does not explain in greater detail to what ends it is specifically used. [1] https://www.sustainalytics.com/esg-research/investors-esg-blog/waste-not-want-not-water-use-in-the-semiconductor-industry#:~:text=The%20demand%20for%20chips%20is,the%20contamination%20of%20electronic%20devices https://www.sustainalytics.com/esg-research/investors-esg-bl....