4 ms·

"The diagrams and the whole business that I got the Nobel Prize for came from that piddling around with the wobbling plate." This shows the extreme importance

by jmfldn 5y ago

"The diagrams and the whole business that I got the Nobel Prize for came from that piddling around with the wobbling plate." This shows the extreme importance of blue sky thinking and allowing people to follow their whims sometimes rather than not starting something unless it fits into existing research goals and funding. This breakthrough all lead from an observation that had no apparent use beyond fulfilling a whim and to have fun with it. I try to live my life by the ludic principle of 'playing'. It's honestly been the lifeblood that's fueled me, kept me sane at work and allowed me to do OK in my career. All of my best ideas at work and in things like making music came from this spirit I'm convinced.

oytis 5y ago
Well, apart from being playful you also need to be a person who can figure out the equation for water funnel effortlessly as a high school kid. The rest of us can benefit from forcing oneself to intellectual effort
- Stevvo 5y ago
  You also need tenure, more than anything else.
  - jmfldn 5y ago
    "You also need tenure, more than anything else." Sadly yes. An argument that the current uni system should be changed to make this not so.
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      That just can't happen, though. Part of tenure is having experience and being able to draw from that. It isn't just job experience, either: Life experience counts and can give your different ways to think outside of the box. The best example I can give is art related: Documentaries and other non-art learning puts a variety of concepts and ideas in your brain, making it easier to think of creative concepts for artwork. The process takes time, though, more time than can be reasonably stuffed into getting a degree.
    - ridaj 5y ago
      The uni system couldn't afford to give tenured professors freedom to follow their fancy without the "underclass" working hard to make it possible in the first place — graduate students and untenured staff do the high-volume work needed to make profits: churning out tens of thousands of undergrads per year, paid for by fed-backed loans, and definitely not all of them taught by Feynman-type professors. I don't know if that's true, that's just my model of how American university works.
      - jmfldn 5y ago
        Sure. I just wonder if there is some sort of middle ground? Does it have to be zero sum here between tenured and non-tenured in this regard? I'm not sure what the answer is but other setups are possible unless you consider this one optimal (perhaps some do!).
- Kinrany 5y ago
  > When I was in high school, I'd see water running out of a faucet growing narrower, and wonder if I could figure out what determines that curve. I found it was rather easy to do. Wait, is this caused merely by the water being accelerated by gravity? I bet most people would be able to figure out the equations for that if they got interested. Edit: there's a separate thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26931645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26931645
- jmfldn 5y ago
  To win a nobel prize yes, but anyone can benefit from the general attitude in many domains of life.
nicbou 5y ago
I learned my trade by playing. I suspect that many other people on HN also did. Now I do something very different, and that also came from playing, as did many of the skills that made it possible. I still write code, but it's entirely for fun. It's a completely different experience from closing tickets in an office. I do many other things that aren't very cost-effective, just because they're fun. They might not pay the rent, but they keep me sane enough to do the things that do. For Mr. Feynman it was playing the bongos. Do things that don't matter. Aside from the doors it can unlock, it's just damn fun.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I wonder how much is made by very simple emotions: - playing - competition - noble obligations (helping someone else) I keep looking at adult life in dismay because what people consider work would barely amount to 20 minutes of soccer when we were kids. We used to run wild for hours, hurt ourselves, attempt everything that could work and we kept asking for more. Can we plug that back into daily adult jobs ?
  - klondike_klive 5y ago
    We can get you another beanbag for the breakout area...
  - nicbou 5y ago
    I really wish there was a PE class for adult, where you stretch, run around the track, then play some random sport for about an hour. One day it's cops and robbers, another it's grass hockey, and nobody knows in advance.
- mmcnl 5y ago
  You could argue that having fun is the end goal of things. Why do we do things that we consider important? Why is it important? Somewhere down the line everything we do should enable someone having fun. If not, then why bother?
  - visarga 5y ago
mmcnl 5y ago
Not everybody is Feynman ofcourse. You have to accept the risk that giving freedom for creativity won't end up with anything useful.
- jmfldn 5y ago
  True. I think most people can benefit from a bit of this at least. Ie. Speaking of software engineering, at work our 10% time is for us to do as we please. A lot of good things come from that. Maybe 50% time would be too much for most though. Google's 20% is probably the maximum I'd opt for if I were a CEO.
  - mmcnl 5y ago
    For me setting 10% aside as "do as you please" feels like a restriction on creativity as well. It's hard to "plan" creativity. I think culture and trust is much more important than setting a number.
    - jmfldn 5y ago
      I agree about culture and trust, both crucial in this regard. I think something like 10% time can play a part too, it at least gives people the feeling they can do what they want for a fixed period of time.
  - cryptonector 5y ago
    These percentages are purely aspirational. Managing software developers' time down to the single digit percentages is impossible. In reality if you're doing something in your 20% (or whatever) that turns out to be valuable, and in particular you make your management see that it's valuable, your 20% will become 80%, and if not, then your 20% will be whatever you manage to make it.
- mikro2nd 5y ago
  But you'll still end up having fun. So a win, whatever the "outcome". (If such a thing matters then you're probably not at play.)

by jmfldn 5y ago

oytis 5y ago

Well, apart from being playful you also need to be a person who can figure out the equation for water funnel effortlessly as a high school kid. The rest of us can benefit from forcing oneself to intellectual effort

Stevvo 5y ago
You also need tenure, more than anything else.
- jmfldn 5y ago
  "You also need tenure, more than anything else." Sadly yes. An argument that the current uni system should be changed to make this not so.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    That just can't happen, though. Part of tenure is having experience and being able to draw from that. It isn't just job experience, either: Life experience counts and can give your different ways to think outside of the box. The best example I can give is art related: Documentaries and other non-art learning puts a variety of concepts and ideas in your brain, making it easier to think of creative concepts for artwork. The process takes time, though, more time than can be reasonably stuffed into getting a degree.
  - ridaj 5y ago
    The uni system couldn't afford to give tenured professors freedom to follow their fancy without the "underclass" working hard to make it possible in the first place — graduate students and untenured staff do the high-volume work needed to make profits: churning out tens of thousands of undergrads per year, paid for by fed-backed loans, and definitely not all of them taught by Feynman-type professors. I don't know if that's true, that's just my model of how American university works.
    - jmfldn 5y ago
      Sure. I just wonder if there is some sort of middle ground? Does it have to be zero sum here between tenured and non-tenured in this regard? I'm not sure what the answer is but other setups are possible unless you consider this one optimal (perhaps some do!).
Kinrany 5y ago
> When I was in high school, I'd see water running out of a faucet growing narrower, and wonder if I could figure out what determines that curve. I found it was rather easy to do. Wait, is this caused merely by the water being accelerated by gravity? I bet most people would be able to figure out the equations for that if they got interested. Edit: there's a separate thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26931645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26931645
jmfldn 5y ago
To win a nobel prize yes, but anyone can benefit from the general attitude in many domains of life.

nicbou 5y ago

I learned my trade by playing. I suspect that many other people on HN also did. Now I do something very different, and that also came from playing, as did many of the skills that made it possible. I still write code, but it's entirely for fun. It's a completely different experience from closing tickets in an office. I do many other things that aren't very cost-effective, just because they're fun. They might not pay the rent, but they keep me sane enough to do the things that do. For Mr. Feynman it was playing the bongos. Do things that don't matter. Aside from the doors it can unlock, it's just damn fun.

agumonkey 5y ago
I wonder how much is made by very simple emotions: - playing - competition - noble obligations (helping someone else) I keep looking at adult life in dismay because what people consider work would barely amount to 20 minutes of soccer when we were kids. We used to run wild for hours, hurt ourselves, attempt everything that could work and we kept asking for more. Can we plug that back into daily adult jobs ?
- klondike_klive 5y ago
  We can get you another beanbag for the breakout area...
- nicbou 5y ago
  I really wish there was a PE class for adult, where you stretch, run around the track, then play some random sport for about an hour. One day it's cops and robbers, another it's grass hockey, and nobody knows in advance.
mmcnl 5y ago
You could argue that having fun is the end goal of things. Why do we do things that we consider important? Why is it important? Somewhere down the line everything we do should enable someone having fun. If not, then why bother?
- visarga 5y ago

mmcnl 5y ago

Not everybody is Feynman ofcourse. You have to accept the risk that giving freedom for creativity won't end up with anything useful.

jmfldn 5y ago
True. I think most people can benefit from a bit of this at least. Ie. Speaking of software engineering, at work our 10% time is for us to do as we please. A lot of good things come from that. Maybe 50% time would be too much for most though. Google's 20% is probably the maximum I'd opt for if I were a CEO.
- mmcnl 5y ago
  For me setting 10% aside as "do as you please" feels like a restriction on creativity as well. It's hard to "plan" creativity. I think culture and trust is much more important than setting a number.
  - jmfldn 5y ago
    I agree about culture and trust, both crucial in this regard. I think something like 10% time can play a part too, it at least gives people the feeling they can do what they want for a fixed period of time.
- cryptonector 5y ago
  These percentages are purely aspirational. Managing software developers' time down to the single digit percentages is impossible. In reality if you're doing something in your 20% (or whatever) that turns out to be valuable, and in particular you make your management see that it's valuable, your 20% will become 80%, and if not, then your 20% will be whatever you manage to make it.
mikro2nd 5y ago
But you'll still end up having fun. So a win, whatever the "outcome". (If such a thing matters then you're probably not at play.)