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Anyone breaking even usage-wise with rooftop solar is already much of the way there, and that's excluding utility generated power and big savings from improved

by Panino 5y ago

Anyone breaking even usage-wise with rooftop solar is already much of the way there, and that's excluding utility generated power and big savings from improved home design (e.g. passive solar heating) and other technologies not yet well deployed like ground source heat pumps and air source heat pumps. Once people realize that these technologies are cheaper than the current go-to options, things will happen quickly.

sacomo 5y ago
I'm not very optimistic that we have enough time, nor individuals have enough financial resources, for the market to realize how cheap / efficient these technologies are. We really need this progress implemented as part of large scale systemic programs. The market is simply too slow.
dmurray 5y ago
I don't understand rooftop solar as a large scale solution. We don't propose that every household grows its own food or mines its own ore. Let us build solar panels on the least valuable rural land, and benefit from the economies of scale and the ease of installation and maintenance - better to look after one acre of solar panels and inverters than the same number spread over a hundred houses. Transmission losses are negligible, easily single digit percent for 100km. For individuals, it may make sense if they value grid independence or if they can benefit from tax breaks imposed by a government that doesn't agree with my take.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I don't understand rooftop solar as a large scale solution. We don't propose that every household grows its own food or mines its own ore. We do, OTOH, demand that every housing unit have, say, flush toilets, because the waste problems without them cause a negative externality we don’t want to deal with. Solar panels can be viewed as the same thing with regard to electricity use. > Let us build solar panels on the least valuable rural land, and benefit from the economies of scale and the ease of installation and maintenance Shading rural land with solar panels makes it less valuable for the one thing rural land is most likely to be valued for. Putting solar panels on rooftops doesn’t compete with other uses of the space.
- xyzzy123 5y ago
  For me the power of rooftop solar is that I don't need to wait for political consensus that something needs to be done. I can do it myself. Now.
- Panino 5y ago
  > I don't understand rooftop solar as a large scale solution. Here's something that might help, then. I have rooftop solar and its lifetime cost (labor + parts) is lower than the price of electricity, meaning it's cheaper to have solar than to not have solar. Secondly, the book Drawdown lists solar farms as the #8 solution and rooftop solar as #10. So rooftop solar is more than financially feasible, and necessary from a climate perspective.
- meristohm 5y ago
  I see your point about economy of scale. I’d rather that rural land be re-wilded so other life can flourish on it, towards resilience as climate changes. The US used to be home to millions of beavers (per book “Eager”), the real heroes of the Yellowstone recovery story (where wolves were reintroduced). The Lewis and Clark expedition noted a hundred miles of continuous wetland in the Midwest. Beavers help prevent flooding, too. Decreasing demand for energy feels like an important step on the path to a healthier ecosystem, and withdrawal will be tough for many. I also propose that more people do grow their own food, or at least be much closer to the farm and garden.

by Panino 5y ago

sacomo 5y ago

I'm not very optimistic that we have enough time, nor individuals have enough financial resources, for the market to realize how cheap / efficient these technologies are. We really need this progress implemented as part of large scale systemic programs. The market is simply too slow.

dmurray 5y ago

I don't understand rooftop solar as a large scale solution. We don't propose that every household grows its own food or mines its own ore. Let us build solar panels on the least valuable rural land, and benefit from the economies of scale and the ease of installation and maintenance - better to look after one acre of solar panels and inverters than the same number spread over a hundred houses. Transmission losses are negligible, easily single digit percent for 100km. For individuals, it may make sense if they value grid independence or if they can benefit from tax breaks imposed by a government that doesn't agree with my take.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> I don't understand rooftop solar as a large scale solution. We don't propose that every household grows its own food or mines its own ore. We do, OTOH, demand that every housing unit have, say, flush toilets, because the waste problems without them cause a negative externality we don’t want to deal with. Solar panels can be viewed as the same thing with regard to electricity use. > Let us build solar panels on the least valuable rural land, and benefit from the economies of scale and the ease of installation and maintenance Shading rural land with solar panels makes it less valuable for the one thing rural land is most likely to be valued for. Putting solar panels on rooftops doesn’t compete with other uses of the space.
xyzzy123 5y ago
For me the power of rooftop solar is that I don't need to wait for political consensus that something needs to be done. I can do it myself. Now.
Panino 5y ago
> I don't understand rooftop solar as a large scale solution. Here's something that might help, then. I have rooftop solar and its lifetime cost (labor + parts) is lower than the price of electricity, meaning it's cheaper to have solar than to not have solar. Secondly, the book Drawdown lists solar farms as the #8 solution and rooftop solar as #10. So rooftop solar is more than financially feasible, and necessary from a climate perspective.
meristohm 5y ago
I see your point about economy of scale. I’d rather that rural land be re-wilded so other life can flourish on it, towards resilience as climate changes. The US used to be home to millions of beavers (per book “Eager”), the real heroes of the Yellowstone recovery story (where wolves were reintroduced). The Lewis and Clark expedition noted a hundred miles of continuous wetland in the Midwest. Beavers help prevent flooding, too. Decreasing demand for energy feels like an important step on the path to a healthier ecosystem, and withdrawal will be tough for many. I also propose that more people do grow their own food, or at least be much closer to the farm and garden.