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While the Young Turks clearly had some more interest in making the empire more Turkish, before WW1 pretty much anybody in the government called themselves Ottom

by nickik 6y ago

While the Young Turks clearly had some more interest in making the empire more Turkish, before WW1 pretty much anybody in the government called themselves Ottomans, not Turks. Turk was mostly use for the poor elements. And they were not military men, they were the civilian government of the empire.

fakedang 6y ago
> And they were not military men, they were the civilian government of the empire. > Mehmed Talaat Pasha (1874–1921), the Grand Vizier (prime minister) and Minister of the Interior; Ismail Enver Pasha (1881–1922), the Minister of War; and Ahmed Cemal Pasha (1872–1922), the Minister of the Navy. I don't know about you, but their positions sound very military to me. AFAIK, they are military or quasi-military departments in every country I've visited.
- nickik 6y ago
  You are simply embracing yourself at this point. Prime minister and minister of the interior? Clearly not military positions. Minister of War and Minister of the Navy is a civilian position as well. Armies are lead by Generals, Navy by admirals, the civilian positions overseeing these institutions in the name of the civilian government. Again, the Young Turks were in control of the whole government. Whatever their individual positions were, they are simply the government. Denying that is is simply not defensible.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    > Ismail Enver Pasha (Ottoman Turkish: اسماعیل انور پاشا‎; Turkish: İsmail Enver Paşa; 22 November 1881 – 4 August 1922) was an Ottoman military officer who formed one-third of the dictatorial triumvirate known as the "Three Pashas" (along with Talaat Pasha and Cemal Pasha) in the Ottoman Empire. > Ahmed Djemal Pasha (Ottoman Turkish: احمد جمال پاشا‎, romanized: Ahmet Cemâl Paşa; 6 May 1872 – 21 July 1922), also known as Jamal Basha as-Saffah ("the Bloodthirsty") in the Arab world, was an Ottoman military leader and one of the Three Pashas that ruled the Ottoman Empire during World War I and carried out the Armenian Genocide. Notice the common word in those two? Military Leader. At this point you're just spouting rubbish by calling those positions civilian positions. Also the minister of the Interior is very much a quasi-military position in a lot of countries even today, and especially in a centralized government like the Ottoman Empire. As was the position of Prime Minister/Grand Vizier. > In the Ottoman Empire, the Ottoman Military Tribunal convicted and sentenced to death Talaat in absentia for his role in the Armenian Genocide. I'll leave this one as a tangent.

by nickik 6y ago

fakedang 6y ago

> And they were not military men, they were the civilian government of the empire. > Mehmed Talaat Pasha (1874–1921), the Grand Vizier (prime minister) and Minister of the Interior; Ismail Enver Pasha (1881–1922), the Minister of War; and Ahmed Cemal Pasha (1872–1922), the Minister of the Navy. I don't know about you, but their positions sound very military to me. AFAIK, they are military or quasi-military departments in every country I've visited.

nickik 6y ago
You are simply embracing yourself at this point. Prime minister and minister of the interior? Clearly not military positions. Minister of War and Minister of the Navy is a civilian position as well. Armies are lead by Generals, Navy by admirals, the civilian positions overseeing these institutions in the name of the civilian government. Again, the Young Turks were in control of the whole government. Whatever their individual positions were, they are simply the government. Denying that is is simply not defensible.
- fakedang 6y ago
  > Ismail Enver Pasha (Ottoman Turkish: اسماعیل انور پاشا‎; Turkish: İsmail Enver Paşa; 22 November 1881 – 4 August 1922) was an Ottoman military officer who formed one-third of the dictatorial triumvirate known as the "Three Pashas" (along with Talaat Pasha and Cemal Pasha) in the Ottoman Empire. > Ahmed Djemal Pasha (Ottoman Turkish: احمد جمال پاشا‎, romanized: Ahmet Cemâl Paşa; 6 May 1872 – 21 July 1922), also known as Jamal Basha as-Saffah ("the Bloodthirsty") in the Arab world, was an Ottoman military leader and one of the Three Pashas that ruled the Ottoman Empire during World War I and carried out the Armenian Genocide. Notice the common word in those two? Military Leader. At this point you're just spouting rubbish by calling those positions civilian positions. Also the minister of the Interior is very much a quasi-military position in a lot of countries even today, and especially in a centralized government like the Ottoman Empire. As was the position of Prime Minister/Grand Vizier. > In the Ottoman Empire, the Ottoman Military Tribunal convicted and sentenced to death Talaat in absentia for his role in the Armenian Genocide. I'll leave this one as a tangent.