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Is there any such device with an OLED or e-ink display? All of the above mentioned have IPS panels and things like watchy with an eink display are not really fo

Is there any such device with an OLED or e-ink display? All of the above mentioned have IPS panels and things like watchy with an eink display are not really for fitness tracking and don’t have a HR monitor. I wish there was a Pebble in 2021.

m-p-3 5y ago
As the owner of several "smartwatch" with a transflective display (Pebble, Pebble Steel, Pebble Time Steel and Amazfit Bip), it does make a huge difference in battery life and I wouldn't downgrade to a smartwatch with a battery life of under a week.
- ruph123 5y ago
  As far as I can tell the Amazfit Blip is the latest with a transflective display. If there was an option to install a different OS on it, I would love to use one.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
The NRF52832 watches are pretty much just limited to satisfy some modding curiosities, Many don't even come with a proper HW step counter. I would love an E-Ink watch to tinker with at this price point too, But there's a thread every other week on HN discussing why rolling out devices with E-Ink by small companies is extraordinarily difficult.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > But there's a thread every other week on HN discussing why rolling out devices with E-Ink by small companies is extraordinarily difficult. where?
  - fsflover 5y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143407
    - robinsoh 5y ago
      and if you look underneath it, you'll see my comment asking for evidence which OP never responded to. I'm very suspicious of such unsubstantiated claims. I work in the display industry, not at E Ink, but have some experience with using their products commercially as well. As far as I can tell, they're a typical display manufacturer and orient themselves towards their high volume customers. Same as everybody else. If you are a company buying anything less than a hundred thousand displays a year, you shouldn't have any expectation of Samsung or LG or any other display company being willing to listen to or enable your development plans. You buy from lower tier distributors just like everyone else. If there's a market shortage, yes, you'll be the first to feel the pinch because top tier vendors will always have their quantities satisfied first. That's what everybody in the industry does because that's the rational thing to do.
      - fsflover 5y ago
        Honestly, I know nothing about the e-ink industry. What I see though is that every new device on the market has plenty of comments like "I wish it had e-ink display" and yet there are no affordable devices like this. I am sure there is a huge market for it, so where are they? I can only think of one reason: patents. By the way, EFF confirm that the patent system is broken: https://www.eff.org/fa/issues/patents https://www.eff.org/fa/issues/patents.
        ruph123 5y ago
        > ... yet there are no affordable devices like this. Watchy costs about $60 [0]. There is also a dude who put together a guide with how to make one yourself and even lists the components [1]. An e-ink display for his watch costs about $10 at aliexpress. (The components are pretty similar, screen likely the same one.) If it is possible for some dude on the internet to build their own smartwatch and a crowd funding campaign to do it on a slightly bigger scale, why are not more manufacturers doing it? That is really what I am wondering about. The whole "screen supply" argument seems like it is a non-issue. Is it really patents? Maybe an e-ink screen is just too boring compared to an Apple Watch's OLED screen? The other question is why are transflective LCD's so rare? Googling for it, literally only Amazfit seems to still make them. [0]: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sqfmi/watchy https://www.crowdsupply.com/sqfmi/watchy [1]: https://github.com/pauls-3d-things/espWatchOS https://github.com/pauls-3d-things/espWatchOS [2]: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32846836344.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d1uskWf https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32846836344.html?spm=a2g0s.90...
  - Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
    >where? 3 days ago- 'Challenges Building an Open-Source E Ink Laptop'[1] > "According to conversations I’ve had, the minimum order quantity(MOQ) required for purchase at one time is between 10,000 to 50,000" In the comments of the same discussion[1], > "During the initial prototyping(MNT Reform) this was one of the options we considered, but back then it would have been prohibitively expensive and we decided to focus on an IPS display and to get to ship a viable product as quickly as possible -- with a tiny team." [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26901757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26901757
    - robinsoh 5y ago
      > minimum order quantity(MOQ) required for purchase at one time is between 10,000 to 50,000 Yes, that's quite reasonable. Approaching E Ink would be the equivalent of approaching Intel's tier 1 supply chain and asking what's their MOQ. You wouldn't expect them to sell you 1 unit would you? Like all display manufacturers, they also have distributors that supply the various tiers. At the lowest value tier is the individual customers (ie: developers) who cost the most to support and provide the least profit. So expect pricing to match that value level. It is the same for Samsung. Same for LG. What I perceive is some kind of entitlement syndrome (that's the feeling I get when reading that blog, it was also the same blog that alleged E Ink was abusing patents based on an HN post and when I challenged it, they finally relented and marked it as "unproven" ) where product ideation people (that blog author for example) think that display companies somehow owe them support. They get hundreds of these kinds of messages all the time from universities, research organizations, educational organizations, product startups all demanding responses and attention but mostly unwilling to pay for it. The reality of the display market is that unless you're coming to a display company with a MOQ or a strong value proposition, you can be certain they'll either ignore you or ask you to talk to one of their lowest tier distributors.

m-p-3 5y ago

As the owner of several "smartwatch" with a transflective display (Pebble, Pebble Steel, Pebble Time Steel and Amazfit Bip), it does make a huge difference in battery life and I wouldn't downgrade to a smartwatch with a battery life of under a week.

ruph123 5y ago
As far as I can tell the Amazfit Blip is the latest with a transflective display. If there was an option to install a different OS on it, I would love to use one.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

The NRF52832 watches are pretty much just limited to satisfy some modding curiosities, Many don't even come with a proper HW step counter. I would love an E-Ink watch to tinker with at this price point too, But there's a thread every other week on HN discussing why rolling out devices with E-Ink by small companies is extraordinarily difficult.

robinsoh 5y ago
> But there's a thread every other week on HN discussing why rolling out devices with E-Ink by small companies is extraordinarily difficult. where?
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143407
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    and if you look underneath it, you'll see my comment asking for evidence which OP never responded to. I'm very suspicious of such unsubstantiated claims. I work in the display industry, not at E Ink, but have some experience with using their products commercially as well. As far as I can tell, they're a typical display manufacturer and orient themselves towards their high volume customers. Same as everybody else. If you are a company buying anything less than a hundred thousand displays a year, you shouldn't have any expectation of Samsung or LG or any other display company being willing to listen to or enable your development plans. You buy from lower tier distributors just like everyone else. If there's a market shortage, yes, you'll be the first to feel the pinch because top tier vendors will always have their quantities satisfied first. That's what everybody in the industry does because that's the rational thing to do.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      Honestly, I know nothing about the e-ink industry. What I see though is that every new device on the market has plenty of comments like "I wish it had e-ink display" and yet there are no affordable devices like this. I am sure there is a huge market for it, so where are they? I can only think of one reason: patents. By the way, EFF confirm that the patent system is broken: https://www.eff.org/fa/issues/patents https://www.eff.org/fa/issues/patents.
      - ruph123 5y ago
        > ... yet there are no affordable devices like this. Watchy costs about $60 [0]. There is also a dude who put together a guide with how to make one yourself and even lists the components [1]. An e-ink display for his watch costs about $10 at aliexpress. (The components are pretty similar, screen likely the same one.) If it is possible for some dude on the internet to build their own smartwatch and a crowd funding campaign to do it on a slightly bigger scale, why are not more manufacturers doing it? That is really what I am wondering about. The whole "screen supply" argument seems like it is a non-issue. Is it really patents? Maybe an e-ink screen is just too boring compared to an Apple Watch's OLED screen? The other question is why are transflective LCD's so rare? Googling for it, literally only Amazfit seems to still make them. [0]: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sqfmi/watchy https://www.crowdsupply.com/sqfmi/watchy [1]: https://github.com/pauls-3d-things/espWatchOS https://github.com/pauls-3d-things/espWatchOS [2]: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32846836344.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d1uskWf https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32846836344.html?spm=a2g0s.90...
- Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
  >where? 3 days ago- 'Challenges Building an Open-Source E Ink Laptop'[1] > "According to conversations I’ve had, the minimum order quantity(MOQ) required for purchase at one time is between 10,000 to 50,000" In the comments of the same discussion[1], > "During the initial prototyping(MNT Reform) this was one of the options we considered, but back then it would have been prohibitively expensive and we decided to focus on an IPS display and to get to ship a viable product as quickly as possible -- with a tiny team." [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26901757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26901757
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    > minimum order quantity(MOQ) required for purchase at one time is between 10,000 to 50,000 Yes, that's quite reasonable. Approaching E Ink would be the equivalent of approaching Intel's tier 1 supply chain and asking what's their MOQ. You wouldn't expect them to sell you 1 unit would you? Like all display manufacturers, they also have distributors that supply the various tiers. At the lowest value tier is the individual customers (ie: developers) who cost the most to support and provide the least profit. So expect pricing to match that value level. It is the same for Samsung. Same for LG. What I perceive is some kind of entitlement syndrome (that's the feeling I get when reading that blog, it was also the same blog that alleged E Ink was abusing patents based on an HN post and when I challenged it, they finally relented and marked it as "unproven" ) where product ideation people (that blog author for example) think that display companies somehow owe them support. They get hundreds of these kinds of messages all the time from universities, research organizations, educational organizations, product startups all demanding responses and attention but mostly unwilling to pay for it. The reality of the display market is that unless you're coming to a display company with a MOQ or a strong value proposition, you can be certain they'll either ignore you or ask you to talk to one of their lowest tier distributors.