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There has been a lot of recent foreign criticism leveled at the Indian government regarding COVID, which seems like political opportunism. Only a month or two a

There has been a lot of recent foreign criticism leveled at the Indian government regarding COVID, which seems like political opportunism. Only a month or two ago, India was in a great position with respect to COVID and was regarded as having successfully managed the pandemic. Another article recently discussed on HN made clear that India enacted much more stringent mandates and containment procedures than the US ever did, for example forcing entire apartment buildings to stay indoors if even one resident tested positive. Their current situation is not caused by outright negligence but complex factors no one understands yet. India also willingly exported more than half their vaccines to other nations, and even charged nothing for them in many cases. They could’ve certainly been more selfish and had an easier situation for themselves. It seems very premature to criticize India or its government. When they’re facing this tough situation, I don’t think it’s appropriate for poorly informed outsiders to assail a nation blindly - it feels gross to me. Another way to look at this is that just as people here in America (activists, journalists, politicians) allege Russian interference in elections and the threat of foreign actors in social media, the Indian government and much of its citizenry are wary of interference and propaganda emerging largely from the West. It’s already been quite apparent when you look at the cringeworthy segments people like John Oliver run about India and its government, as well as one sided coverage of the farmers protests, and activist commentary from everyone ranging from celebrities like Rihanna to activists like Greta Thunberg. I understand why India would take these steps to protect the integrity of their nation’s dialog. Why wouldn’t these countries be concerned about outside interference in this day and age? Surely Americans don’t have exclusive claim to fears of foreign interference. If anything this move is probably regarded as too late by people in India.

sodrick 6y ago
you seem to have the whole time in the world to type all this...
srean 6y ago
Prime minister and home minister rallying crowds without masks, religious congregations surely had nothing to do with the spike coinciding with that timeline. 'Oh reality is more complicated' is as trite, as generic and as content free as one can get
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare. What’s your causal evidence linking certain people or certain actions to what’s happening now, and how do you separate that from the advent of new variants, for example? Or as you put it: blaming the government or those events is as trite, as generic, and as content free as one can get.
  - throwaway1090 6y ago
    Crowds without mask don't transmit? Where have you been this past year!!!
  - rualca 6y ago
    > Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare. No, not really. Transmission rates while outdoors are only low if you comply with requirements such as ensuring you always stay at least 2 meters away from everyone and don't interact with people. Hence the importance of mask, sanitize surfaces, and preserve social distancing.
rualca 6y ago
> Only a month or two ago, India was in a great position with respect to COVID and was regarded as having successfully managed the pandemic. No, not really. The surge in covid-19 cases has been ongoing since late Feb/early March 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56206004 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56206004 Infection rates grew exponentially since. Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  > No, not really. I’m not sure I understand what you’re pointing to here. The timeline you’re referring to is aligned with what I said - that India was regarded to have managed the pandemic well just a month or two ago. It’s late April now and late Feb is when the new spike began. On March 1, the entire country still had only 15K cases per day on a rolling weekly average - nearly indistinguishable as a new and different pattern. The new spike did not reach prior peaks until early April, which was an unexpectedly fast and unprecedented pace of growth. > Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak I’m not sure if you’re familiar with India’s pandemic plan, but they didn’t “reopen everything”, and you should be careful to avoid absolute statements like this which aren’t based on facts. It’s also not possible to describe India’s policy in such a monolithic way since each state has authority to impose its own mandates. That said, after the very harsh initial restrictions, India’s strategy has been less focused on what’s open/unopened and more focused on localized containment, which was highly successful in 2020. Lastly keep in mind that as a democracy, the federal government of India can’t enact arbitrary restrictions. It has to function within the confines of the legal system, political norms, and so on. I would also caution pointing at political rallies as “known key factors” just because news articles or social media are speculating about it - this is not the same as causal evidence. The best written articles on the India spike (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19s-ground-zero-shifts-to-india-11617634554 https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19s-ground-zero-shifts-to...) are careful to not decisively blame any one factor. Before the surge, mobility was up generally in the country, independent of elections. The emphasis on elections and rallies, which are only taking place in a few states (this isn’t a general election year), seem to be politically motivated more than anything. As I said earlier other factors like the advent of new variants need to be studied more. The WSJ notes: > Indian scientists said there hasn’t been enough testing to measure which variants are powering the surge, but the accelerating rate of the spread of infections suggests a more viral form is spreading across the country.
skinnymuch 6y ago
This is far too biased. Not providing any info either. More victim complex for India. Below you wrote: > Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare. Which is demonstrably not true. You were responding to people in close proximity for long periods of time outside.
- srean 6y ago
  https://web.archive.org/web/20210203131743if_/https://thewire.in/media/amit-malviya-bjp-fake-news https://web.archive.org/web/20210203131743if_/https://thewir... Just in case you are not familiar with the tactics.
  - skinnymuch 6y ago
    Thanks. Helpful to see

sodrick 6y ago

you seem to have the whole time in the world to type all this...

srean 6y ago

Prime minister and home minister rallying crowds without masks, religious congregations surely had nothing to do with the spike coinciding with that timeline. 'Oh reality is more complicated' is as trite, as generic and as content free as one can get

throwawaysea 6y ago
Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare. What’s your causal evidence linking certain people or certain actions to what’s happening now, and how do you separate that from the advent of new variants, for example? Or as you put it: blaming the government or those events is as trite, as generic, and as content free as one can get.
- throwaway1090 6y ago
  Crowds without mask don't transmit? Where have you been this past year!!!
- rualca 6y ago
  > Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare. No, not really. Transmission rates while outdoors are only low if you comply with requirements such as ensuring you always stay at least 2 meters away from everyone and don't interact with people. Hence the importance of mask, sanitize surfaces, and preserve social distancing.

rualca 6y ago

> Only a month or two ago, India was in a great position with respect to COVID and was regarded as having successfully managed the pandemic. No, not really. The surge in covid-19 cases has been ongoing since late Feb/early March 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56206004 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56206004 Infection rates grew exponentially since. Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak.

throwawaysea 6y ago
> No, not really. I’m not sure I understand what you’re pointing to here. The timeline you’re referring to is aligned with what I said - that India was regarded to have managed the pandemic well just a month or two ago. It’s late April now and late Feb is when the new spike began. On March 1, the entire country still had only 15K cases per day on a rolling weekly average - nearly indistinguishable as a new and different pattern. The new spike did not reach prior peaks until early April, which was an unexpectedly fast and unprecedented pace of growth. > Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak I’m not sure if you’re familiar with India’s pandemic plan, but they didn’t “reopen everything”, and you should be careful to avoid absolute statements like this which aren’t based on facts. It’s also not possible to describe India’s policy in such a monolithic way since each state has authority to impose its own mandates. That said, after the very harsh initial restrictions, India’s strategy has been less focused on what’s open/unopened and more focused on localized containment, which was highly successful in 2020. Lastly keep in mind that as a democracy, the federal government of India can’t enact arbitrary restrictions. It has to function within the confines of the legal system, political norms, and so on. I would also caution pointing at political rallies as “known key factors” just because news articles or social media are speculating about it - this is not the same as causal evidence. The best written articles on the India spike (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19s-ground-zero-shifts-to-india-11617634554 https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19s-ground-zero-shifts-to...) are careful to not decisively blame any one factor. Before the surge, mobility was up generally in the country, independent of elections. The emphasis on elections and rallies, which are only taking place in a few states (this isn’t a general election year), seem to be politically motivated more than anything. As I said earlier other factors like the advent of new variants need to be studied more. The WSJ notes: > Indian scientists said there hasn’t been enough testing to measure which variants are powering the surge, but the accelerating rate of the spread of infections suggests a more viral form is spreading across the country.

skinnymuch 6y ago

This is far too biased. Not providing any info either. More victim complex for India. Below you wrote: > Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare. Which is demonstrably not true. You were responding to people in close proximity for long periods of time outside.

srean 6y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20210203131743if_/https://thewire.in/media/amit-malviya-bjp-fake-news https://web.archive.org/web/20210203131743if_/https://thewir... Just in case you are not familiar with the tactics.
- skinnymuch 6y ago
  Thanks. Helpful to see