6 ms·

Because criminals have alot of guns

failwhaleshark 5y ago
That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?
- logicslave 5y ago
  I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens the law and order of a civilized nation. But the video that is coming out is making it clear to the common people, that despite what the media says, you can see for yourself what occurs. The narrative can only be held for so long before too much video evidence to the contrary piles up. George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach. Duante Wright robbed a girl by choking her, holding her at gun point, for 800$ Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide" The 16 year old girl shot recently was running at people swinging a knife.
  - failwhaleshark 5y ago
    > I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. For a second, I thought you were going to mention MENSA. So do many of HN old guard. Appeal to authority isn't evidence; it's an opinion, and not even an expert opinion. > threatens the law and order of a civilized nation The US has the highest incarceration per capita on the planet (sans Seychelles), disproportionately imprisoning minorities. Consider the works and interviews by Chris Hedges, who teaches classes in prison. Many of his students are in for petty drug crimes. Furthermore, there are numerous aging inmates who were snared by the War on Drugs and in prison for no good reason. Remember, the WoD was explicitly used to target Nixon's perceived enemies: hippies and minorities. Then, (Nancy) Reagan decided it would be a good idea to go after drugs while simultaneously arming the Contras using cocaine, leading to the crack epidemic.
    - logicslave 5y ago
      "disproportionately imprisoning minorities" Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killing alot of people, its not a "racism" problem. Framing it as so is brainwashing. You are a political pawn If you want to take it further, look at a break down of murder rate of ethnic groups by income decile.
      - olivermarks 5y ago
        A sobering article to back up @logicslave's point https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black-violence https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black...
  - mkl 5y ago
    Maybe you should base your opinions on data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-1 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... Violent crime in the USA has fallen dramatically in the last 20 years.
    - olivermarks 5y ago
      'If it is fact, not fiction, that violent street crime today is almost exclusively a minority phenomenon, then it would appear that one simply may not speak about it. That proscription injures law-abiding residents of high-crime areas most of all, people like the aunt of a child victim in St. Louis, who told the Washington Post in October: “I live in fear of living in St. Louis. I feel trapped.” Such citizens beg for more police protection and see the police as the only thing standing between them and anarchy.' From https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black-violence https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black... Maybe you should spend less time looking at government data and more time experiencing the streets. https://youtu.be/QfCZqkpS4PA https://youtu.be/QfCZqkpS4PA
      - mkl 5y ago
        Logicslave said: "Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common." The data don't seem to support that. Obviously violent crime still exists in the USA, and from my point of view in NZ the rates seem scarily high. That doesn't mean they haven't decreased.
        olivermarks 5y ago
        @mkI In San Francisco where I am violent crime has absolutely exploded since theft under $950 per day has been reduced to a misdemeanor. Adding fuel to this fire are opioid addicts stealing to feed their habit, a toxic combination of extremely violent attacks coupled with endless petty crime. The big Walgreens drugstore chain Walgreens has closed ten stores in SF primarily due to rampant crime, with a lot of small retailers also closing to protect staff. https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/crime-penalties/petty-theft-california-penalties-defense https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-def...
  - rolha-capoeira 5y ago
    "George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach." Even if true, cops aren't supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner. Talk about threatening "law and order". "Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide"" Even if you believe this, let's just kill all children with violent nicknames, eh? I don't know why I bothered, when you opened your comment by boasting about your alleged intelligence. I hope you are never in a position to hurt anyone with your law and order.
    - logicslave 5y ago
      Both of those examples are easily verifiable with a google search. Murals of Adam Toledo have "Lil Homicide" as part of the mural. "Well you know so what if George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach! Hes a gentle giant! A working class honest man!" -Brainwashed Americans Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killing alot of people, its not a "racism" problem. Framing it as so is brainwashing. You are a political pawn If you want to take it further, look at a break down of murder rate of ethnic groups by income decile. This is a cultural problem, and people are not owning up to the glorification of violence
      - xsmasher 5y ago
        >George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach Snopes says it's not true; who (outside of right-wing faxlore) says it is? What's it called when you believe something that matches your bias, even when it isn't true?
        bavent 5y ago
        It's called "not being as intelligent as you claim to be in your opening comment" I believe.
  - orf 5y ago
    > I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc And yet you wrote something as cringey as that. > Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide” Imagine having such a highly educated brain, filled with dense scientific works as well as philosophy, and using it to justify the murder of an unarmed 13 year old child by the state. None of the examples you used in any way justify their death nor do they lend any evidence to the idea that systematic racism within the police force doesn’t exist. Edit: to the person who replied saying that not liking kids being shot by the police is nothing but ‘the "woke" liberal "narrative" that is leaking onto HN’ then deleted their comment, seek help.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - simfree 5y ago
    Were Adam Toledo, Duante Wright or George Floyd threatening anyone's life or liberty at the time of their deaths?
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    > George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach. A quick DDG says this is an urban legend, or do you, Mr. "Highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc" know better? And did those things you read justify the death he suffered? The cops didn't even know his past, and even if they did, so fucking what, their job isn't to judge someone to be worthy of death and then executing them... But well, it's easy enough for people like you to find excuses that "those people were bad guys" who "deserved it", so you can sleep at night and not admit to yourself that maybe you're biased. > Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. The 4 fuckers had 9 minutes to change the situation and not end up being shit cops, with at least one of them rotting in jail because he was deemed to have broken the law (although maybe not in your book(s), Mr. Dunning Kruger?). Were they in a life threatening situation for those 9 minutes?
    - stevenicr 5y ago
      You got me to search on this - I used startpage - Only used the first three results.. I learned more about the situation than I had 'heard' before - so thanks for that. I do not think the 'undisputed' facts make the thing total 'urban legend' however. It seems there is some questioning as to whether or not the girl was pregnant or not - even the places that seem to be trying to downplay the 'social media legend' - aka politifact giving a "false" because a wrong picture was being used on an instagram (meme?) - It seems that there is no debate that he (with others) forced into a home, and using a gun, threatened a couple of people and a toddler - at one point shoving a gun into the stomach of a woman - demanding to know where the money and drugs are. I do not write this to justify anything - I am a seeker of truths, which more and more these days seem to elude 'both sides' of many discussions. For what it's worth I wish things ended differently with the Floyd situation, and I think a majority of people on either side/any side also feel the same.
  - enteeentee 5y ago
    > The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. There shouldn't be pressure to act, or take action, the preferred outcome should be to resolve the situation. Newark actually puts more pressure on the police with more detailed reporting, and more training including deescalation, where previously they had none. It's quite clear a lot of American policing has problems, correct training, being over militarised, too powerful unions, being used for wrong situations, cutting budgets from things that actually reduce crime and increasing police budgets, inappropriate use of civil forfeiture to name just a few. > law and order of a civilized nation. Law and order, well theres underlying fault with American policing right there, the law and order approach. Plenty of countries are civilized without the law and order approach eg Peelian. Why keep posting lots of comments with the same arguments about why its not racism, and instead ask/comment on the article like why the approach used is working.

That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?

logicslave 5y ago
I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens the law and order of a civilized nation. But the video that is coming out is making it clear to the common people, that despite what the media says, you can see for yourself what occurs. The narrative can only be held for so long before too much video evidence to the contrary piles up. George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach. Duante Wright robbed a girl by choking her, holding her at gun point, for 800$ Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide" The 16 year old girl shot recently was running at people swinging a knife.
- failwhaleshark 5y ago
  > I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. For a second, I thought you were going to mention MENSA. So do many of HN old guard. Appeal to authority isn't evidence; it's an opinion, and not even an expert opinion. > threatens the law and order of a civilized nation The US has the highest incarceration per capita on the planet (sans Seychelles), disproportionately imprisoning minorities. Consider the works and interviews by Chris Hedges, who teaches classes in prison. Many of his students are in for petty drug crimes. Furthermore, there are numerous aging inmates who were snared by the War on Drugs and in prison for no good reason. Remember, the WoD was explicitly used to target Nixon's perceived enemies: hippies and minorities. Then, (Nancy) Reagan decided it would be a good idea to go after drugs while simultaneously arming the Contras using cocaine, leading to the crack epidemic.
  - logicslave 5y ago
    "disproportionately imprisoning minorities" Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killing alot of people, its not a "racism" problem. Framing it as so is brainwashing. You are a political pawn If you want to take it further, look at a break down of murder rate of ethnic groups by income decile.
    - olivermarks 5y ago
      A sobering article to back up @logicslave's point https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black-violence https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black...
- mkl 5y ago
  Maybe you should base your opinions on data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-1 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... Violent crime in the USA has fallen dramatically in the last 20 years.
  - olivermarks 5y ago
    'If it is fact, not fiction, that violent street crime today is almost exclusively a minority phenomenon, then it would appear that one simply may not speak about it. That proscription injures law-abiding residents of high-crime areas most of all, people like the aunt of a child victim in St. Louis, who told the Washington Post in October: “I live in fear of living in St. Louis. I feel trapped.” Such citizens beg for more police protection and see the police as the only thing standing between them and anarchy.' From https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black-violence https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black... Maybe you should spend less time looking at government data and more time experiencing the streets. https://youtu.be/QfCZqkpS4PA https://youtu.be/QfCZqkpS4PA
    - mkl 5y ago
      Logicslave said: "Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common." The data don't seem to support that. Obviously violent crime still exists in the USA, and from my point of view in NZ the rates seem scarily high. That doesn't mean they haven't decreased.
      - olivermarks 5y ago
        @mkI In San Francisco where I am violent crime has absolutely exploded since theft under $950 per day has been reduced to a misdemeanor. Adding fuel to this fire are opioid addicts stealing to feed their habit, a toxic combination of extremely violent attacks coupled with endless petty crime. The big Walgreens drugstore chain Walgreens has closed ten stores in SF primarily due to rampant crime, with a lot of small retailers also closing to protect staff. https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/crime-penalties/petty-theft-california-penalties-defense https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-def...
- rolha-capoeira 5y ago
  "George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach." Even if true, cops aren't supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner. Talk about threatening "law and order". "Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide"" Even if you believe this, let's just kill all children with violent nicknames, eh? I don't know why I bothered, when you opened your comment by boasting about your alleged intelligence. I hope you are never in a position to hurt anyone with your law and order.
  - logicslave 5y ago
    Both of those examples are easily verifiable with a google search. Murals of Adam Toledo have "Lil Homicide" as part of the mural. "Well you know so what if George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach! Hes a gentle giant! A working class honest man!" -Brainwashed Americans Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killing alot of people, its not a "racism" problem. Framing it as so is brainwashing. You are a political pawn If you want to take it further, look at a break down of murder rate of ethnic groups by income decile. This is a cultural problem, and people are not owning up to the glorification of violence
    - xsmasher 5y ago
      >George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach Snopes says it's not true; who (outside of right-wing faxlore) says it is? What's it called when you believe something that matches your bias, even when it isn't true?
      - bavent 5y ago
        It's called "not being as intelligent as you claim to be in your opening comment" I believe.
- orf 5y ago
  > I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc And yet you wrote something as cringey as that. > Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide” Imagine having such a highly educated brain, filled with dense scientific works as well as philosophy, and using it to justify the murder of an unarmed 13 year old child by the state. None of the examples you used in any way justify their death nor do they lend any evidence to the idea that systematic racism within the police force doesn’t exist. Edit: to the person who replied saying that not liking kids being shot by the police is nothing but ‘the "woke" liberal "narrative" that is leaking onto HN’ then deleted their comment, seek help.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- simfree 5y ago
  Were Adam Toledo, Duante Wright or George Floyd threatening anyone's life or liberty at the time of their deaths?
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  > George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach. A quick DDG says this is an urban legend, or do you, Mr. "Highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc" know better? And did those things you read justify the death he suffered? The cops didn't even know his past, and even if they did, so fucking what, their job isn't to judge someone to be worthy of death and then executing them... But well, it's easy enough for people like you to find excuses that "those people were bad guys" who "deserved it", so you can sleep at night and not admit to yourself that maybe you're biased. > Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. The 4 fuckers had 9 minutes to change the situation and not end up being shit cops, with at least one of them rotting in jail because he was deemed to have broken the law (although maybe not in your book(s), Mr. Dunning Kruger?). Were they in a life threatening situation for those 9 minutes?
  - stevenicr 5y ago
    You got me to search on this - I used startpage - Only used the first three results.. I learned more about the situation than I had 'heard' before - so thanks for that. I do not think the 'undisputed' facts make the thing total 'urban legend' however. It seems there is some questioning as to whether or not the girl was pregnant or not - even the places that seem to be trying to downplay the 'social media legend' - aka politifact giving a "false" because a wrong picture was being used on an instagram (meme?) - It seems that there is no debate that he (with others) forced into a home, and using a gun, threatened a couple of people and a toddler - at one point shoving a gun into the stomach of a woman - demanding to know where the money and drugs are. I do not write this to justify anything - I am a seeker of truths, which more and more these days seem to elude 'both sides' of many discussions. For what it's worth I wish things ended differently with the Floyd situation, and I think a majority of people on either side/any side also feel the same.
- enteeentee 5y ago
  > The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. There shouldn't be pressure to act, or take action, the preferred outcome should be to resolve the situation. Newark actually puts more pressure on the police with more detailed reporting, and more training including deescalation, where previously they had none. It's quite clear a lot of American policing has problems, correct training, being over militarised, too powerful unions, being used for wrong situations, cutting budgets from things that actually reduce crime and increasing police budgets, inappropriate use of civil forfeiture to name just a few. > law and order of a civilized nation. Law and order, well theres underlying fault with American policing right there, the law and order approach. Plenty of countries are civilized without the law and order approach eg Peelian. Why keep posting lots of comments with the same arguments about why its not racism, and instead ask/comment on the article like why the approach used is working.