4 ms·

Why don't you at least look into the study methodology before answering with such certainty? Since Pew Research uses the same questions, there's no shifting of

Why don't you at least look into the study methodology before answering with such certainty? Since Pew Research uses the same questions, there's no shifting of the "Overton Window" (I'm well aware of the concept). So this poll measures both absolute and relative movement. I actually agree that there has been some shifting to the right of the Overton Window in fiscal and economic issues only as the Democratic Party has abandoned its traditional working class constituency. But that has no bearing on this poll.

monocasa 5y ago
I've read the entire study many times. Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Even the fact that "liberal" means left now is a function of how far to the right the democrats have gone, the Third Way Democrats having cemented their hold on the party. Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position. Being lukewarm for left wing positions only on the condition that it doesn't come out of public funding is at best a center right wing viewpoint.
- monoideism 5y ago
  > Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you've read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. > Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    > Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "liberal" or "conservative"? > If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP. I'm not sure why you started thinking I hate people for being populists, or that you think Hawley has even a modicum of support from the Republican party as whole (both voters and politicians).
    - monoideism 5y ago
      > Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "liberal" or "conservative"? Read them all here: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/10/9_02.png https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/site... Those are the actual questions they ask. They "grade" them as liberal or conservative as shown in the columns (they mention that in the methodology section). Also, it's not just 1994 and 2014. They've done it at 3-5 year intervals since 1994 up to 2017. Look at 2017 in particular, since that explains a lot about where we find ourselves today. Personally, I'm glad there are people like Hawley. GOP has been in the pocket of big business for far too long. And now the Democratic party is thoroughly embedded there, too. There is a strong grassroots contigent with more reasonable fiscal views (read: much less plutocratic) coming up in the local and state GOP (unfortunately, some of them are also conspiracists, which is very bad). They may lose in the end, but there will be a fight for the party between the old wing and the new wing. Edit: Those have been the questions all along. I've followed this poll for a decade. I'd pull up evidence of that, but I suspect you'd put some new requirement in for being convinced. I mean, you thought that the questions included "liberal" and "conservative" in them initially. And I'm really not interested in continuing a debate with someone who feels the need to ask me to "stay on task" with how he feels the discussion should proceeed (Hawley came up because you said right == fiscally conservative and he's a counterexample). So I'm out.

monocasa 5y ago

I've read the entire study many times. Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Even the fact that "liberal" means left now is a function of how far to the right the democrats have gone, the Third Way Democrats having cemented their hold on the party. Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position. Being lukewarm for left wing positions only on the condition that it doesn't come out of public funding is at best a center right wing viewpoint.

monoideism 5y ago
> Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you've read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. > Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP.
- monocasa 5y ago
  > Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "liberal" or "conservative"? > If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP. I'm not sure why you started thinking I hate people for being populists, or that you think Hawley has even a modicum of support from the Republican party as whole (both voters and politicians).
  - monoideism 5y ago
    > Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "liberal" or "conservative"? Read them all here: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/10/9_02.png https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/site... Those are the actual questions they ask. They "grade" them as liberal or conservative as shown in the columns (they mention that in the methodology section). Also, it's not just 1994 and 2014. They've done it at 3-5 year intervals since 1994 up to 2017. Look at 2017 in particular, since that explains a lot about where we find ourselves today. Personally, I'm glad there are people like Hawley. GOP has been in the pocket of big business for far too long. And now the Democratic party is thoroughly embedded there, too. There is a strong grassroots contigent with more reasonable fiscal views (read: much less plutocratic) coming up in the local and state GOP (unfortunately, some of them are also conspiracists, which is very bad). They may lose in the end, but there will be a fight for the party between the old wing and the new wing. Edit: Those have been the questions all along. I've followed this poll for a decade. I'd pull up evidence of that, but I suspect you'd put some new requirement in for being convinced. I mean, you thought that the questions included "liberal" and "conservative" in them initially. And I'm really not interested in continuing a debate with someone who feels the need to ask me to "stay on task" with how he feels the discussion should proceeed (Hawley came up because you said right == fiscally conservative and he's a counterexample). So I'm out.