6 ms·

Possibly, but does that make him wrong?

Jeff_Brown 6y ago
Whether it's a failure depends on what you were hoping it would achieve, and how long you're willing to keep watching it before making up your mind. The experiment is still going. Maybe humanity millenia from now will be snuffing out whole stars to mine Bitcoin. I'd consider that a failure, but surely some miner would consider it a success.
- austincheney 6y ago
  Whether it's a failure depends upon its real value, which is next to 0. Crypto-currencies instead have a high nominal value, which is to say that they are only valued as an exchange for other currencies but otherwise have no utility. As a comparison a warehouse stocked with purchased tangible goods have a real value that can be exchanged for other goods regardless of inflation or currency activity. Crypto does not have that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_versus_nominal_value_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_versus_nominal_value_(eco... Concretely, there are only two utilities to crypto-currency: as a speculative currency investment hoping the value of a given crypto-currency increases disproportionately to a seed currency and as a means of anonymizing currency transactions. Until crypto is used for something other than day trading or illicit purchases most people simply don't care and won't ever care as its effectively worthless in a real sense.
  - Jeff_Brown 6y ago
    It's got at least one more use case: getting around inflationary problems. It's been a huge boon in Venezuela for that reason.
lostmsu 6y ago
He does not really state any good points to support his claim. Ponzi one is baseless (in this piece). Volatility one is incomplete. Clearly people use volatile currencies. Usually people avoid ones that are in downward spiral. If he (or even majority) can not wrap their heads around the question of how to transact under current conditions, it does not mean nobody can.
- shuckles 6y ago
  Isn’t the ponzi designation entirely correct? Nobody gets rich holding USD - it’s a medium of exchange. People get rich holding Bitcoin iff they can generate more future demand. This sounds like stocks, except with equities you also can get rich by claiming your stake of cash flows (ie dividends or buybacks), but there’s nothing of the sort with Bitcoin. What am I missing?
  - tbihl 6y ago
    No, because a Ponzi scheme is one in which early investors are fraudulently paid "returns" out of the contribution of later investors. This is just speculation or a bubble (which I guess you could call "open Ponzi scheme", but that's a self contradicting term.)
    - wolfpack_mick 6y ago
      I think pyramid scheme is what he means
      - lostmsu 6y ago
        It is not a pyramid scheme either. Nobody promises "payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme".
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Tulip Bulb then
        Sammi 6y ago
        No, not that either. Anyone can plant more Tulips. There's no way to dilute the supply of Bitcoin.
        HellzStormer 6y ago

Whether it's a failure depends on what you were hoping it would achieve, and how long you're willing to keep watching it before making up your mind. The experiment is still going. Maybe humanity millenia from now will be snuffing out whole stars to mine Bitcoin. I'd consider that a failure, but surely some miner would consider it a success.

austincheney 6y ago
Whether it's a failure depends upon its real value, which is next to 0. Crypto-currencies instead have a high nominal value, which is to say that they are only valued as an exchange for other currencies but otherwise have no utility. As a comparison a warehouse stocked with purchased tangible goods have a real value that can be exchanged for other goods regardless of inflation or currency activity. Crypto does not have that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_versus_nominal_value_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_versus_nominal_value_(eco... Concretely, there are only two utilities to crypto-currency: as a speculative currency investment hoping the value of a given crypto-currency increases disproportionately to a seed currency and as a means of anonymizing currency transactions. Until crypto is used for something other than day trading or illicit purchases most people simply don't care and won't ever care as its effectively worthless in a real sense.
- Jeff_Brown 6y ago
  It's got at least one more use case: getting around inflationary problems. It's been a huge boon in Venezuela for that reason.

lostmsu 6y ago

He does not really state any good points to support his claim. Ponzi one is baseless (in this piece). Volatility one is incomplete. Clearly people use volatile currencies. Usually people avoid ones that are in downward spiral. If he (or even majority) can not wrap their heads around the question of how to transact under current conditions, it does not mean nobody can.

shuckles 6y ago
Isn’t the ponzi designation entirely correct? Nobody gets rich holding USD - it’s a medium of exchange. People get rich holding Bitcoin iff they can generate more future demand. This sounds like stocks, except with equities you also can get rich by claiming your stake of cash flows (ie dividends or buybacks), but there’s nothing of the sort with Bitcoin. What am I missing?
- tbihl 6y ago
  No, because a Ponzi scheme is one in which early investors are fraudulently paid "returns" out of the contribution of later investors. This is just speculation or a bubble (which I guess you could call "open Ponzi scheme", but that's a self contradicting term.)
  - wolfpack_mick 6y ago
    I think pyramid scheme is what he means
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      It is not a pyramid scheme either. Nobody promises "payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme".
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Tulip Bulb then
        Sammi 6y ago
        No, not that either. Anyone can plant more Tulips. There's no way to dilute the supply of Bitcoin.
        HellzStormer 6y ago