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A big part of the problem is that the post office is not accountable as it's a government organization. A private company would be bankrupted by this, but the p
by silexia 6y ago
A big part of the problem is that the post office is not accountable as it's a government organization. A private company would be bankrupted by this, but the post office will just be bailed out by taxpayers.
- pmyteh 6y agoAt one point the Post Office's own barrister had to tell them in no uncertain terms that their attempts to prevent disclosure might amount to a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice (a pretty serious crime). The Post Office might not be bankrupted, but I don't think this is going to go well for many of the people involved in the prosecution. The wheels of justice run slow but grind exceedingly fine etc.
- dv_dt 6y agoInstead of viewing the problem as "bailing out", maybe it should be viewed at mitigated and fixed - because a system that people rely upon, one that needs to work, should be kept working - there are no better alternatives. With private companies, everyone else is often left holding the bag - esp e.g. with mining and drilling companies. But with private corruption companies too - the bankruptcy of the company typically involves all of those being owed money taking a hit if not losing their money completely.
- kortilla 6y ago> owed money taking a hit if not losing their money completely. You mention that as if it’s a bad thing? Wiping out bad investments is one of the major tenets of free market approaches. It’s the negative feedback loop for bad investments. If something is unsustainable, it should go out of business and the investors should take a loss.
- silexia 6y agoI agree with the grandparent. Externalities should be born by the company making the profits. Example: imagine an oil company that can pump toxic fluids into the ground in order to cheaply extract lots of oil. Those toxic fluids render miles of ground as wasteland far into the future. The owners of the company should not be allowed to take the profits now, then allow the company to go bankrupt so they don't have to pay back and repair the damage they did. The limited liability company should be eliminated as it encourages terrible behaviors.
- kortilla 6y ago> I agree with the grandparent. Externalities should be born by the company making the profits. You ignored what I wrote. Wiping out investors is making externalities born by the company. My statement has nothing to do with externalities. It’s about investors being on the hook a good thing. The grandparent implied that poor investors lose their money on one hand and complain about externalities going to public on the other, which makes no sense. Holding companies, and subsequently shareholders, accountable for all of the company liabilities is the capitalist way.
- dv_dt 6y agoFor things that are private goods, it's fine to have a process of elimination - but only if that elimination doesn't leave even more public obligations to clean up (like pollution). However the post office is a public good, so just letting it disappear is something that needs to be prefaced by an actual public discussion to do so.
- kortilla 6y ago
- rectang 6y ago> it's a government organization You're conveniently overlooking the role that Fujitsu, the software contractor, played. The issue is concentration of power at large organizations, relative to the rights of individuals in society. It is problematic when any organization accumulates too much power and runs roughshod over an individual citizen, whether that organization is government or private enterprise.
- anigbrowl 6y agoThe UK post office was privatized in the middle of the period in question, so your assertion is half-true. Of course, even as a private entity it retains an aura of state authority which may have swayed perceptions of juries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Mail#Privatisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Mail#Privatisation
- jayelbe 6y agoNo, this is not accurate. The Post Office was split from Royal Mail; Royal Mail was privatised while the Post Office remained (and still remains) in the public sector.
- anigbrowl 6y agoA good point, I misremembered the structure of the companies post-privatization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Ltd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Ltd
- kergonath 6y agoWell, then reality is a direct contradiction of your point of view. The Post Office is actually a private company, and yet here we are...