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This is what has actually happened to the country's political values (click animate to view the data over the past several decades): https://www.pewresearch.or

This is what has actually happened to the country's political values (click animate to view the data over the past several decades): https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... Here is a more detailed discussion of the data. Tragically, Pew Research describes the situation as dire even back in 2014, which was before polarization really started to accelerate. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2014/06/12/political-po... As you can see, both parties are moved toward the extremes, but in recent years the left has moved further to the left than the right toward the right. These moves to the extremes of the right and left are driven partly by social media, and partly by traditional media (since most traditional media these days originates in social media: original reportage is getting increasingly rare).

monocasa 5y ago
That says nothing about the actual policies, only how polarized they are against each other relatively. Since 1992, both parties have moved to the right, just the Republicans have moved moreso. That's how we ended up with Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation's 1994 HEART Act becoming Obamacare and radioactive to the Republicans two decades later. Go check out the concept of the overton window and see how a window can move to the right while both sides become more distinct within that window.
- monoideism 5y ago
  Why don't you at least look into the study methodology before answering with such certainty? Since Pew Research uses the same questions, there's no shifting of the "Overton Window" (I'm well aware of the concept). So this poll measures both absolute and relative movement. I actually agree that there has been some shifting to the right of the Overton Window in fiscal and economic issues only as the Democratic Party has abandoned its traditional working class constituency. But that has no bearing on this poll.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    I've read the entire study many times. Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Even the fact that "liberal" means left now is a function of how far to the right the democrats have gone, the Third Way Democrats having cemented their hold on the party. Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position. Being lukewarm for left wing positions only on the condition that it doesn't come out of public funding is at best a center right wing viewpoint.
    - monoideism 5y ago
      > Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you've read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. > Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP.
      - monocasa 5y ago
        > Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "liberal" or "conservative"? > If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP. I'm not sure why you started thinking I hate people for being populists, or that you think Hawley has even a modicum of support from the Republican party as whole (both voters and politicians).
syops 5y ago
Thank you for the link to the Pew research. Here’s my response to the claims of the research and this response is solely based off of my observations and clearly my observations could have led me astray. In 1980 anyone claiming Jimmy Carter’s wife was a man would have been labeled a kook by the vast majority of Republicans. Today we have a nontrivial amount of conservatives/libertarians who believe this claim about Michelle Obama. We have non-trivial amounts of Republicans who think Covid is a hoax. We have non-trivial amounts of Republicans who think vaccines are harmful. I’m not talking about Covid vaccines but another measles vaccines and polio vaccines. We have Republicans today call the affordable care act socialism when it was a proposal of the Heritage Foundation in the early 90s. We have Republicans today decry cap and trade when cap and trade was used by Reagan to combat acid rain. Today any Republican who says that the tax on labor should be less than the tax on capital would not be supported by the party and this was Reagan’s position. The list goes on. The Republican Party has shifted into crazy land. They supported a President that mocked a former prisoner of war in their own party. The party of family values supported a serial sex abuser. They supported a man who wondered if nuclear weapons could stop a hurricane. They supported a man who thought Obama wasn’t born in the United States. This is a party that resides in cuckoo land. There is no middle grounds with such spineless, inconsistent, hypocritical people. There is no way to reason with such people. The party is detached from reality.

monocasa 5y ago

That says nothing about the actual policies, only how polarized they are against each other relatively. Since 1992, both parties have moved to the right, just the Republicans have moved moreso. That's how we ended up with Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation's 1994 HEART Act becoming Obamacare and radioactive to the Republicans two decades later. Go check out the concept of the overton window and see how a window can move to the right while both sides become more distinct within that window.

monoideism 5y ago
Why don't you at least look into the study methodology before answering with such certainty? Since Pew Research uses the same questions, there's no shifting of the "Overton Window" (I'm well aware of the concept). So this poll measures both absolute and relative movement. I actually agree that there has been some shifting to the right of the Overton Window in fiscal and economic issues only as the Democratic Party has abandoned its traditional working class constituency. But that has no bearing on this poll.
- monocasa 5y ago
  I've read the entire study many times. Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Even the fact that "liberal" means left now is a function of how far to the right the democrats have gone, the Third Way Democrats having cemented their hold on the party. Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position. Being lukewarm for left wing positions only on the condition that it doesn't come out of public funding is at best a center right wing viewpoint.
  - monoideism 5y ago
    > Perhaps you can point out how explicitly how they adjust for shifts of how definitions like "consistently liberal" shift over time? Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you've read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. > Additionally being "fiscally right wing" is an overall right wing position If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      > Once again, the questions are just policy questions. They don't mention anything about "liberal" or "conservative". They ask policy questions, which is exactly what you seem to have wanted initially. If you read the study methodology, then you should be aware of exactly what the survey respondants are asked. Then you should be able to list one policy qustion they asked in 2014 and 1994 that doesn't use the word "liberal" or "conservative"? > If you believe that, then the coming years are going to be a big surprise to you. The GOP of Reagan is on its way out. People like Hawley, who are happy to work with Bernie Sanders on certain fiscal policies, are on their way in. You may well still hate them because they are populists, but they have a different outlook on multinational corporations and the ultrawealthy than the old GOP. I'm not sure why you started thinking I hate people for being populists, or that you think Hawley has even a modicum of support from the Republican party as whole (both voters and politicians).

syops 5y ago

Thank you for the link to the Pew research. Here’s my response to the claims of the research and this response is solely based off of my observations and clearly my observations could have led me astray. In 1980 anyone claiming Jimmy Carter’s wife was a man would have been labeled a kook by the vast majority of Republicans. Today we have a nontrivial amount of conservatives/libertarians who believe this claim about Michelle Obama. We have non-trivial amounts of Republicans who think Covid is a hoax. We have non-trivial amounts of Republicans who think vaccines are harmful. I’m not talking about Covid vaccines but another measles vaccines and polio vaccines. We have Republicans today call the affordable care act socialism when it was a proposal of the Heritage Foundation in the early 90s. We have Republicans today decry cap and trade when cap and trade was used by Reagan to combat acid rain. Today any Republican who says that the tax on labor should be less than the tax on capital would not be supported by the party and this was Reagan’s position. The list goes on. The Republican Party has shifted into crazy land. They supported a President that mocked a former prisoner of war in their own party. The party of family values supported a serial sex abuser. They supported a man who wondered if nuclear weapons could stop a hurricane. They supported a man who thought Obama wasn’t born in the United States. This is a party that resides in cuckoo land. There is no middle grounds with such spineless, inconsistent, hypocritical people. There is no way to reason with such people. The party is detached from reality.