5 ms·

That's extremely sad and it is truth that we, people, are doing horrible things to each other for a long time. I hope you find comfort (and I hope God blesses u

That's extremely sad and it is truth that we, people, are doing horrible things to each other for a long time. I hope you find comfort (and I hope God blesses us with the wisdom to fight against our own internal passions). This shouldn't be about "this nation is bad, this nation is good". (saying it as a bulgarian, we also had complicated history with the Ottomans, but I think we can say we live peacefully with the ordinary turk people) However, this doesn't mean we can't talk about genocides/massacres: germans can witness about many soviet atrocities, but they don't have the nerve to deny the Holocaust in the same time. We should seek the truth in both directions.

bayindirh 5y ago
First of all, thank you. Hi Bulgarian friend! The thing is, there were many nations at play at that time. I have some documents in an archaic CD-ROM about the issue. I don't want to name names, but the number of rifles collected from Armenians during that time is enough to form a small, unorganized army at the area. I don't know if I can dig the images but, they were a lot. Turks and Armenians didn't hate each other, ever. This hate was seeded during the war somehow. To prevent worse things from happening, rulers of that time decided to remove Armenians from that area to somewhere south (IIRC the path), but bad things have happened. During this movement, other bad things have happened to Turks (like to my family). The sad thing is, Turks don't hate Armenians, even today. We don't hate, our family, friends have no negative emotions about them, but when hate is projected from other side, you mirror it somehow to protect yourself. Having a chat with old Armenian friends were always hard. The emotions were very asymmetric. When a dear friend gives a suspicious look, wondering whether you're planning to hurt him/her is hurting. The heart breaking thing is, my story is always listened as I'm making this up, but I'm not. I have no reason to. We're border neighbors and this shall end. It's tiring and doesn't have any productive outcome. I don't tell that Armenians have not died. I do say bad things have happened to everyone, but labeling this as a planned and deliberate act is highly wounding. And dismissing what happened to Turks at that area adds insult to the injury.
- alehander42 5y ago
  Yes: we should be honest about atrocities against turks as well. I admit that it's possible that this happened even in Bulgaria, sadly. And I am sure bulgarian historians hide some of this stuff, the same way probably armenian historians are biased, and turkish are biased Thank you as well, turkish friend ! However it's hard to deny it's not planned and deliberate: you describe in your own words ethnical cleansing in the best possible case. Maybe many people died, because they were left in bad conditions without help, and this aspect was unintentional? I need to educate myself more, so I'd be happy to see those documents. I don't doubt about the feeling of love to armenians! However part of love is to want to find the objective truth: repentance is crucial for our human nature. I hope all of us can do that(bulgarians, armenians, turks and everyone)
  - bayindirh 5y ago
    Thanks for your sincere comment. I'd not like to comment about things about in Bulgaria. I've seen some photos, but I don't want to discuss this further, part because I'm not knowledgeable about to discuss it, part because I have no hard feelings. > However it's hard to deny it's not planned and deliberate I'd love to discuss it further, but since it's such a touchy issue, I'd like to read it from the archives themselves from all countries, but they're not accessible AFAIK from neither party. Proper books with proper sources would also do, but I can't read that fast either. I'd try to dig the CD-ROM and find the text and images, but I can't make any promises about it. I also want to educate myself further in the issue. The family account provides the base information but, We need to know our history as objective and detailed as possible, so we can make more informed choices and decide for ourselves. I wish that us or at most two generations down from us can see a more peaceful area around here. I live by "peace at home, peace around the world" motto, but it's getting harder every day, for everyone.
- andrewvc 5y ago
  I am sorry for what happened to your family. Armenians did commit some atrocities in response. I don’t condone those. I say this as an Armenian. The scale of those was small in comparison. That does not negate that the genocide happened, in which the Turk’s goal was to obliterate the Armenians as a people. WRT the documents you mention, those are probably from the contemporaneous disinformation campaign on the part of the govt. Even at the time many foreign observers noted that the govt was exaggerating the Armenian “threat”. The claims you are making are thoroughly debunked and not recognized by historians in mainstream academia outside turkey.

bayindirh 5y ago

First of all, thank you. Hi Bulgarian friend! The thing is, there were many nations at play at that time. I have some documents in an archaic CD-ROM about the issue. I don't want to name names, but the number of rifles collected from Armenians during that time is enough to form a small, unorganized army at the area. I don't know if I can dig the images but, they were a lot. Turks and Armenians didn't hate each other, ever. This hate was seeded during the war somehow. To prevent worse things from happening, rulers of that time decided to remove Armenians from that area to somewhere south (IIRC the path), but bad things have happened. During this movement, other bad things have happened to Turks (like to my family). The sad thing is, Turks don't hate Armenians, even today. We don't hate, our family, friends have no negative emotions about them, but when hate is projected from other side, you mirror it somehow to protect yourself. Having a chat with old Armenian friends were always hard. The emotions were very asymmetric. When a dear friend gives a suspicious look, wondering whether you're planning to hurt him/her is hurting. The heart breaking thing is, my story is always listened as I'm making this up, but I'm not. I have no reason to. We're border neighbors and this shall end. It's tiring and doesn't have any productive outcome. I don't tell that Armenians have not died. I do say bad things have happened to everyone, but labeling this as a planned and deliberate act is highly wounding. And dismissing what happened to Turks at that area adds insult to the injury.

alehander42 5y ago
Yes: we should be honest about atrocities against turks as well. I admit that it's possible that this happened even in Bulgaria, sadly. And I am sure bulgarian historians hide some of this stuff, the same way probably armenian historians are biased, and turkish are biased Thank you as well, turkish friend ! However it's hard to deny it's not planned and deliberate: you describe in your own words ethnical cleansing in the best possible case. Maybe many people died, because they were left in bad conditions without help, and this aspect was unintentional? I need to educate myself more, so I'd be happy to see those documents. I don't doubt about the feeling of love to armenians! However part of love is to want to find the objective truth: repentance is crucial for our human nature. I hope all of us can do that(bulgarians, armenians, turks and everyone)
- bayindirh 5y ago
  Thanks for your sincere comment. I'd not like to comment about things about in Bulgaria. I've seen some photos, but I don't want to discuss this further, part because I'm not knowledgeable about to discuss it, part because I have no hard feelings. > However it's hard to deny it's not planned and deliberate I'd love to discuss it further, but since it's such a touchy issue, I'd like to read it from the archives themselves from all countries, but they're not accessible AFAIK from neither party. Proper books with proper sources would also do, but I can't read that fast either. I'd try to dig the CD-ROM and find the text and images, but I can't make any promises about it. I also want to educate myself further in the issue. The family account provides the base information but, We need to know our history as objective and detailed as possible, so we can make more informed choices and decide for ourselves. I wish that us or at most two generations down from us can see a more peaceful area around here. I live by "peace at home, peace around the world" motto, but it's getting harder every day, for everyone.
andrewvc 5y ago
I am sorry for what happened to your family. Armenians did commit some atrocities in response. I don’t condone those. I say this as an Armenian. The scale of those was small in comparison. That does not negate that the genocide happened, in which the Turk’s goal was to obliterate the Armenians as a people. WRT the documents you mention, those are probably from the contemporaneous disinformation campaign on the part of the govt. Even at the time many foreign observers noted that the govt was exaggerating the Armenian “threat”. The claims you are making are thoroughly debunked and not recognized by historians in mainstream academia outside turkey.