5 ms·

This is one of the most awful things of the current state justice systems around the world: persecution of victimless and minor crimes. In the came of victimle

by henvic 5y ago

This is one of the most awful things of the current state justice systems around the world: persecution of victimless and minor crimes. In the came of victimless crimes, well, just get rid of it! In the case of minor crimes, reparation should be a priority, instead of punishing the actors. It's even better not to persecute than waste a lot of resources in a case (what would be completely inadmissible if we were talking about private justice).

Blikkentrekker 5y ago
Do you honestly think this will ever lead to a prosecution with significant jail time rather than the news being spectacular as always? The worst that will happen in this case is the lawyers coming to an agreement that the suspect will pay the late fee and the case be dropped as the defence can surely convince the prosecution that wasting money of this is in no one's interest. As for victim-less crimes, they exist because despite most people chanting that they do not want them, they in fact do want them, but simply are convinced there is an actual victim in the cases where they want them.
- dls2016 5y ago
  You have a collect call from Rikers Island, do you accept the charges? Edit: the "joke" is the number of people (notoriously) held in Rikers island for ridiculous "crimes". https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law
- lolinder 5y ago
  Read the article. This woman says that she was dismissed from multiple jobs over the last 20 years without explanation. Her charge was felony embezzlement, so I don't blame the employers for being freaked out when they saw it. It's on the DA for filing this charge for something so stupid. She doesn't have to be prosecuted to be persecuted.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>This woman says that she was dismissed from multiple jobs over the last 20 years without explanation. Surely.....even such a barbaric country as United States has at least some absolute minimum of protection against unfair dismissal? The whole at will employment alone is insane, but even with it, surely she could sue for unfair dismissal if she wasn't told why she's being let go?
    - skinnymuch 5y ago
      Suing is a pain when you’re living paycheck to paycheck or even otherwise if it isn’t in your nature to be that sort of person.
    - toast0 5y ago
      At will means you can be dismissed for "any" reason or no reason; where discrimination against protected classes or other illegal reasons are not acceptable "any" reasons. Under this regime, mosy employers usually tell you you're dismissed for no reason, because it's easier. When I was subject to background checks in California in this century, there was a checkbox on the form to get a copy of the results, but I'm not sure if that's a federal or state requirement. I don't think there was a checkbox for the results when I got fingerprinted for a school district job in the 90s though. If that was available for the person in the article, they still might not have been able to keep their job, but they'd have been able to clean it up sooner.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Under this regime, mosy employers usually tell you you're dismissed for no reason, because it's easier. Most employers will thoroughly document and disclose the reasons (possibility pretextual) for dismissal (often through an extended heavily-documented process like a PIP unless they have or can manufacture an acute reason/pretext) because, one, they are going to use it in court if you claim an impermissible reason, and, two, you knowing that they have something set up to use discourages you from taking them to court in the first place. Although in a case where they have a ironclad reason and little fear of a lawsuit, but fear of retribution about the basis of the dismissal, that might be different.
- xnyan 5y ago
  I grew up fairly poor, poor people routinely go to jail and pay huge fines for minor infractions that someone with power would never be charged with due to access to legal protections the poor can’t afford. One example, a childhood friend of mine got a $75 parking ticket that he was not aware of, by the time he found out it was now $250 due to late fees and the state revoked his car registration. Unknown to him, he’s pulled over on the way to work and now gets slapped with another $200 for driving an unregistered vehicle. It was the end of the month, he didn’t have $500 to pay the fines and had to drive to work or lose his job. Pulled over again, this time license revoked and the fees are over $1000 and growing every month he could not pay. A warrant was eventually issued for his arrest, resulting in more fees accrued for the arrest and the interest of his unpaid fees while he was in jail. Ask any poor person and they can tell you this exact same story - it’s not uncommon at all and in my opinion an evil practice intended to exploit the poor because they can’t resist it. >lawyers coming to an agreement Ha ha, I’m sure the person struggling to stay afloat can afford a lawyer.
  - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
    > One example, a childhood friend of mine got a $75 parking ticket that he was not aware of, by the time he found out it was now $250 due to late fees and the state revoked his car registration. Unknown to him, he’s pulled over on the way to work and now gets slapped with another $200 for driving an unregistered vehicle. It was the end of the month, he didn’t have $500 to pay the fines and had to drive to work or lose his job. Pulled over again, this time license revoked and the fees are over $1000 and growing every month he could not pay. A warrant was eventually issued for his arrest, resulting in more fees accrued for the arrest and the interest of his unpaid fees while he was in jail. So all these things happened and it was all during this unknown to him that it happened? How does one have one's driver's licence revoked without being informed thereof? This more so reads as though he did not properly read the notices he received from the government. > Ha ha, I’m sure the person struggling to stay afloat can afford a lawyer. That is why lawyers are appointed to the indigent in criminal cases.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      > How does one have one's driver's licence revoked without being informed thereof? > That is why lawyers are appointed to the indigent in criminal cases. Are you speaking from direct experience with any of this? If not, please stop repeating plesant fictions of how the system claims to operate. I have a friend whose license got suspended with no notice, until they were pulled over and their car was towed. The state insists that having sent "notice" by first class mail (with no guarantee of delivery) is good enough, even though certified mail is the minimum for legal process. I also have another friend that had only a few hundred dollars to their name, was arrested and charged with a felony, and was laughed at when asking to continue with the public defender after the arraignment. The system will readily give you representation so you can be formally charged, after that you're on your own. They had to end up borrowing cash for bail and ongoing representation. That doesn't even touch upon the injustice of being wrongfully arrested, acquitted, but still having to pay for the legal circus and missed work. Actual reality is much different than the narratives held by people that haven't ever had to suffer the system.

by henvic 5y ago

Blikkentrekker 5y ago

Do you honestly think this will ever lead to a prosecution with significant jail time rather than the news being spectacular as always? The worst that will happen in this case is the lawyers coming to an agreement that the suspect will pay the late fee and the case be dropped as the defence can surely convince the prosecution that wasting money of this is in no one's interest. As for victim-less crimes, they exist because despite most people chanting that they do not want them, they in fact do want them, but simply are convinced there is an actual victim in the cases where they want them.

dls2016 5y ago
You have a collect call from Rikers Island, do you accept the charges? Edit: the "joke" is the number of people (notoriously) held in Rikers island for ridiculous "crimes". https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law
lolinder 5y ago
Read the article. This woman says that she was dismissed from multiple jobs over the last 20 years without explanation. Her charge was felony embezzlement, so I don't blame the employers for being freaked out when they saw it. It's on the DA for filing this charge for something so stupid. She doesn't have to be prosecuted to be persecuted.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>This woman says that she was dismissed from multiple jobs over the last 20 years without explanation. Surely.....even such a barbaric country as United States has at least some absolute minimum of protection against unfair dismissal? The whole at will employment alone is insane, but even with it, surely she could sue for unfair dismissal if she wasn't told why she's being let go?
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    Suing is a pain when you’re living paycheck to paycheck or even otherwise if it isn’t in your nature to be that sort of person.
  - toast0 5y ago
    At will means you can be dismissed for "any" reason or no reason; where discrimination against protected classes or other illegal reasons are not acceptable "any" reasons. Under this regime, mosy employers usually tell you you're dismissed for no reason, because it's easier. When I was subject to background checks in California in this century, there was a checkbox on the form to get a copy of the results, but I'm not sure if that's a federal or state requirement. I don't think there was a checkbox for the results when I got fingerprinted for a school district job in the 90s though. If that was available for the person in the article, they still might not have been able to keep their job, but they'd have been able to clean it up sooner.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Under this regime, mosy employers usually tell you you're dismissed for no reason, because it's easier. Most employers will thoroughly document and disclose the reasons (possibility pretextual) for dismissal (often through an extended heavily-documented process like a PIP unless they have or can manufacture an acute reason/pretext) because, one, they are going to use it in court if you claim an impermissible reason, and, two, you knowing that they have something set up to use discourages you from taking them to court in the first place. Although in a case where they have a ironclad reason and little fear of a lawsuit, but fear of retribution about the basis of the dismissal, that might be different.
xnyan 5y ago
I grew up fairly poor, poor people routinely go to jail and pay huge fines for minor infractions that someone with power would never be charged with due to access to legal protections the poor can’t afford. One example, a childhood friend of mine got a $75 parking ticket that he was not aware of, by the time he found out it was now $250 due to late fees and the state revoked his car registration. Unknown to him, he’s pulled over on the way to work and now gets slapped with another $200 for driving an unregistered vehicle. It was the end of the month, he didn’t have $500 to pay the fines and had to drive to work or lose his job. Pulled over again, this time license revoked and the fees are over $1000 and growing every month he could not pay. A warrant was eventually issued for his arrest, resulting in more fees accrued for the arrest and the interest of his unpaid fees while he was in jail. Ask any poor person and they can tell you this exact same story - it’s not uncommon at all and in my opinion an evil practice intended to exploit the poor because they can’t resist it. >lawyers coming to an agreement Ha ha, I’m sure the person struggling to stay afloat can afford a lawyer.
- Blikkentrekker 5y ago
  > One example, a childhood friend of mine got a $75 parking ticket that he was not aware of, by the time he found out it was now $250 due to late fees and the state revoked his car registration. Unknown to him, he’s pulled over on the way to work and now gets slapped with another $200 for driving an unregistered vehicle. It was the end of the month, he didn’t have $500 to pay the fines and had to drive to work or lose his job. Pulled over again, this time license revoked and the fees are over $1000 and growing every month he could not pay. A warrant was eventually issued for his arrest, resulting in more fees accrued for the arrest and the interest of his unpaid fees while he was in jail. So all these things happened and it was all during this unknown to him that it happened? How does one have one's driver's licence revoked without being informed thereof? This more so reads as though he did not properly read the notices he received from the government. > Ha ha, I’m sure the person struggling to stay afloat can afford a lawyer. That is why lawyers are appointed to the indigent in criminal cases.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    > How does one have one's driver's licence revoked without being informed thereof? > That is why lawyers are appointed to the indigent in criminal cases. Are you speaking from direct experience with any of this? If not, please stop repeating plesant fictions of how the system claims to operate. I have a friend whose license got suspended with no notice, until they were pulled over and their car was towed. The state insists that having sent "notice" by first class mail (with no guarantee of delivery) is good enough, even though certified mail is the minimum for legal process. I also have another friend that had only a few hundred dollars to their name, was arrested and charged with a felony, and was laughed at when asking to continue with the public defender after the arraignment. The system will readily give you representation so you can be formally charged, after that you're on your own. They had to end up borrowing cash for bail and ongoing representation. That doesn't even touch upon the injustice of being wrongfully arrested, acquitted, but still having to pay for the legal circus and missed work. Actual reality is much different than the narratives held by people that haven't ever had to suffer the system.