4 ms·

> You then have half of the discussion about the term "monopoly" which half of them dont understand and refuse to understand. And another half of the discussion

> You then have half of the discussion about the term "monopoly" which half of them dont understand and refuse to understand. And another half of the discussions about Apple's BS that they took and state they have very small market shares. The monopoly thing is an Americanism and is irrelevant as far as European law is concerned anyway. Companies are tried for anticompetitive behaviour or abuse of a dominant position, neither requires a monopoly or anything close. It is enough to show that the company is dominant in one market, and using that unfairly to advance its position in another market. A company can be dominant with a 60% marketshare, depending on the market. On the other hand, being a monopoly is perfectly legal as long as it is not used for anticompetitive purposes. Same for oligopolies. There are a lot of markets served by only 2 or 3 companies and that’s fine as long as everyone behaves.

ksec 6y ago
Agree on everything you have said. It is the Anti-Competitive nature that is of concern. I think Benedict Evans puts it best, do other business "Fear" of losing market access because of certain company.
- kergonath 6y ago
  Oh yes, I am not disagreeing with you, on the contrary. Well, apart for the "Apple apologist" bit. I would hate to be forced to install third-party app stores when they are allowed. We know the second they can get away with it, software from Adobe, Microsoft, and Facebook will be distributed only through their own app stores. I trust these companies far less than Apple as far as my personal and payment information is concerned. But the points you alluded to are important and often overlooked in these discussions. The CJEU won't use the Sherman antitrust act or any legal definition from US laws. The EU has put competition as a supra-national religion, but they don't care about consumers in the way American courts do, and they definitely won't wait until someone has a monopoly. I expect them to take the narrow view and ignore all security and safety aspects and force competition.
  - jsnell 6y ago
    Which of Adobe, Microsoft or Facebook distribute their software only via their own app store on Android? Given the answer is "none of them", why do you think they'd do that on iOS?
    - kergonath 6y ago
      There is no money to be made on Android, that is not the model they’ll follow. Looking at the core platform where they actually do make money is more insightful. Adobe has been much more involved on the iOS side. We have to go through their crap on their website on macOS. Same for Microsoft (though they do offer a version of Office on the Mac App Store and are generally better than other big software editors). We all know how Facebook will behave. They’ll see an alternative App Store as a great way to slurp in as much personal data as possible, and will try to get exclusives to lure people in. Hopefully they’ll fail, but maybe not. Then there are game companies and the plethora of launchers/stores/things. Every one of them being a PII leak waiting to happen.
  - ksec 6y ago
    >I expect them to take the narrow view and ignore all security and safety aspects and force competition. Yes. Again agreeing on everything. I want a middle ground. And I want to push for a middle ground. Except it is such a rare view, and the whole discourse is dominated by both extreme ( so to speak ).

ksec 6y ago

Agree on everything you have said. It is the Anti-Competitive nature that is of concern. I think Benedict Evans puts it best, do other business "Fear" of losing market access because of certain company.

kergonath 6y ago
Oh yes, I am not disagreeing with you, on the contrary. Well, apart for the "Apple apologist" bit. I would hate to be forced to install third-party app stores when they are allowed. We know the second they can get away with it, software from Adobe, Microsoft, and Facebook will be distributed only through their own app stores. I trust these companies far less than Apple as far as my personal and payment information is concerned. But the points you alluded to are important and often overlooked in these discussions. The CJEU won't use the Sherman antitrust act or any legal definition from US laws. The EU has put competition as a supra-national religion, but they don't care about consumers in the way American courts do, and they definitely won't wait until someone has a monopoly. I expect them to take the narrow view and ignore all security and safety aspects and force competition.
- jsnell 6y ago
  Which of Adobe, Microsoft or Facebook distribute their software only via their own app store on Android? Given the answer is "none of them", why do you think they'd do that on iOS?
  - kergonath 6y ago
    There is no money to be made on Android, that is not the model they’ll follow. Looking at the core platform where they actually do make money is more insightful. Adobe has been much more involved on the iOS side. We have to go through their crap on their website on macOS. Same for Microsoft (though they do offer a version of Office on the Mac App Store and are generally better than other big software editors). We all know how Facebook will behave. They’ll see an alternative App Store as a great way to slurp in as much personal data as possible, and will try to get exclusives to lure people in. Hopefully they’ll fail, but maybe not. Then there are game companies and the plethora of launchers/stores/things. Every one of them being a PII leak waiting to happen.
- ksec 6y ago
  >I expect them to take the narrow view and ignore all security and safety aspects and force competition. Yes. Again agreeing on everything. I want a middle ground. And I want to push for a middle ground. Except it is such a rare view, and the whole discourse is dominated by both extreme ( so to speak ).