5 ms·

"But Schmidt’s calculation of the lifetime cost per megawatt-hour for lithium-ion batteries, $367, is more than twice as much" This is ridiculous. I'm chargin

by guerby 6y ago

"But Schmidt’s calculation of the lifetime cost per megawatt-hour for lithium-ion batteries, $367, is more than twice as much" This is ridiculous. I'm charging right now my EV from a 14 kWh 16S LFP pack which costed me $1400 tax paid and delivered. LFP properly managed will do minimum 3000 cycles, so that's 42 MWh for $1400 which gives $34 per MWh out of the battery. Note: 5kW 48V inverter cost $500.

ardit33 6y ago
It is over 25 years, I don't think your battery will last 25 year. You probably have to replace it 3-4 times over that period of time. A mechanical system can last that much, even more, with minimal maintenance.
- kragen 6y ago
  You may have accidentally responded to the wrong comment. The comment to which your response has been attached already takes into account the limited cycle life of batteries.
  - guerby 6y ago
    And I didn't take into account that a third of the paid price was shipping, and that battery prices are dropping like a rock: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/EE/D0EE02681F#!divAbstract https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/EE/D0EE0... Re-examining rates of lithium-ion battery technology improvement and cost decline
tralarpa 6y ago
> 14 kWh 16S LFP pack which costed me $1400 Wow, that's amazing. But why are home battery systems still so expensive? I see system prices in the range of $700 to $1200 per kWh. Even on aliexpress, it's minimum $550/kWh. Is the inverter so expensive?
- guerby 6y ago
  Niche market so high markup to pay for the maker margin and the seller margin. I found the vendor by following: https://diysolarforum.com/ https://diysolarforum.com/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse
audunw 6y ago
Battery does not just degrade with power cycles. It also degrades with time. Not sure about the numbers for LFP, but it's something you need to take into account. For some areas time may be a more important factor than cycles. If it does a full cycle every 3 days or so, it'd take roughly 25 years to reach the cycle limit. It's also important to remember that capacity will be reduced gradually. After 25 years both the energy storage capacity and power output of batteries will be seriously reduced, while the gravity-based system will most likely still be at full capacity. I still think the estimate may be too high. Especially taking into account that these systems will compete in the future at a time where battery costs will be lower. But it might still make sense to build gravity based systems for a while to make sure all the lithium we mine goes to batteries for transportation.
- BenjiWiebe 6y ago
  In 25 years, a mechanical structure with tons of force on moving parts is going to be needing some maintenance, too.

by guerby 6y ago

ardit33 6y ago

It is over 25 years, I don't think your battery will last 25 year. You probably have to replace it 3-4 times over that period of time. A mechanical system can last that much, even more, with minimal maintenance.

kragen 6y ago
You may have accidentally responded to the wrong comment. The comment to which your response has been attached already takes into account the limited cycle life of batteries.
- guerby 6y ago
  And I didn't take into account that a third of the paid price was shipping, and that battery prices are dropping like a rock: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/EE/D0EE02681F#!divAbstract https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/EE/D0EE0... Re-examining rates of lithium-ion battery technology improvement and cost decline

tralarpa 6y ago

> 14 kWh 16S LFP pack which costed me $1400 Wow, that's amazing. But why are home battery systems still so expensive? I see system prices in the range of $700 to $1200 per kWh. Even on aliexpress, it's minimum $550/kWh. Is the inverter so expensive?

guerby 6y ago
Niche market so high markup to pay for the maker margin and the seller margin. I found the vendor by following: https://diysolarforum.com/ https://diysolarforum.com/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse

audunw 6y ago

Battery does not just degrade with power cycles. It also degrades with time. Not sure about the numbers for LFP, but it's something you need to take into account. For some areas time may be a more important factor than cycles. If it does a full cycle every 3 days or so, it'd take roughly 25 years to reach the cycle limit. It's also important to remember that capacity will be reduced gradually. After 25 years both the energy storage capacity and power output of batteries will be seriously reduced, while the gravity-based system will most likely still be at full capacity. I still think the estimate may be too high. Especially taking into account that these systems will compete in the future at a time where battery costs will be lower. But it might still make sense to build gravity based systems for a while to make sure all the lithium we mine goes to batteries for transportation.

BenjiWiebe 6y ago
In 25 years, a mechanical structure with tons of force on moving parts is going to be needing some maintenance, too.