4 ms·

China seems to be the new hot spot.

llarsson 6y ago
The article says that before the pandemic, european sales were much dependant on tourists making their purchases in Europe. So it was Chinese and American people buying these items before as well. But before the pandemic, they bought them during a trip to Europe, and now via the web, closer to home.
mbg721 6y ago
...for highly-established, old-world European brands. Is it just that producing luxury goods is something that takes an economy a while to do, or does China make high-status stuff that's just under my radar?
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  High status to whom?
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  You need cachet and legacy to signal exclusivity, which is best obtained with time, and even if there were any sort of big Chinese fashion houses they haven’t been around long enough to earn that kind of cred.
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    This is the most off base comment I’ve heard in a long time. Turnover in fashion is CONSTANT. Even among the high end brands. You literally picked the most capricious industry to make that argument with? China has taken all of that manufacturing prowess that the world has been pushing on to it, and turned around and made homegrown stuff that matches or surpasses the originals in terms of quality, and now, market popularity. (In China) Pair this with the rising nationalism and middle class in China, and you’ve got a huge up swing in this area. Ref: Chinese model friend (I was super ignorant of all this until recently)
    - dillondoyle 6y ago
      Is there a Chinese brand that is well known/large volume outside asia? The only thing I can maybe think of is Huishan Zhang or maybe angel chen or some niche street ware stuff. but i really doubt any non-fashion person would know that and I had to google 'who was that chinese designer at barneys' couldn't name the brand off top of my head. Not saying there isn't a lot of talent and creativity in China, but there aren't any international luxury fashion houses on the level of a LVMH or Kering brand. Sure brands and trends go in and out of style; Gucci-gang growth which is now slowing or reversing lol. But for those who only care about a purse with a logo and aren't reading WWD or wearing the clothes, 'luxury' brands are pretty set in stone. Seems more opportunity now though for independent brands with Instagram and celeb culture. I love Jacquemus. the purses & shoes drive it for women I think, but again it's tiny compared to LV.
      - imwillofficial 6y ago
        We are talking about within China, in the context of my comment about China being a new hotspot. And to answer your first question, yes. (Although the traditional luxury brands still get TONS of play. The rising middle class LOVES their brand names.)
        dillondoyle 6y ago
        what brand is known outside china? even 1/10th of the brand recognition of a top LVMH brand?
        imwillofficial 6y ago
        Read my comment again for context.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      The article is talking about big-name international brands and their sales, so I don't know why you're upset that everyone is talking about... big-name international brands and their sales. > and now, market popularity. (In China) Citation needed. > China has taken all of that manufacturing prowess that the world has been pushing on to it, and turned around and made homegrown stuff that matches or surpasses the originals in terms of quality, > Pair this with the rising nationalism and middle class in China, and you’ve got a huge up swing in this area. That's all well and good, but no one was talking about this (including your original one-sentence comment) and I'm not sure how people were supposed to just magically get this subtext. There's nothing wrong with the fact that it takes time to build an international fashion brand unless you think there's something wrong with it. CDG was started in 1969, 5 years after the Tokyo Olympics, and took until 1981 to do an international show. If you were to apply a similar trend to China, a Chinese fashion brand would reach the international stage sometime in the late 2020s, and there's nothing wrong with that.
- dillondoyle 6y ago
  I don't think it's so much about skill or talent. The artists are there. They can obvious make things. It seems more like just exposure and breaking out of Chinese market to get into your/our us & european culture. There are some luxury Chinese fashion brands but like I commented below I don't think any that would be known by anyone who isn't reading WWD or vogue and spending $2k on a trendy dress. I think the scale of their market in country is more than we assume though. Like I remember that Rihana giant pizza fur dress thing. The designer who made it was on some show maybe Vice I can't remember - it was pretty cool she has a huge business making extremely lavishly large furs that aren't really worn in 'the west' anymore, very much a Chinese cultural niche. https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/oct/18/guo-pei-chinese-designer-who-made-rihanna-omelette-dress https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/oct/18/guo-pei-chin...
- quantumsequoia 6y ago
  There is growing nationalist sentiment in China which is resulting in increased status of domestic brands among Chinese consumers and reduced status of foreign brands Does China have luxury fashion brands that are high status abroad? Not many

The article says that before the pandemic, european sales were much dependant on tourists making their purchases in Europe. So it was Chinese and American people buying these items before as well. But before the pandemic, they bought them during a trip to Europe, and now via the web, closer to home.

mbg721 6y ago

...for highly-established, old-world European brands. Is it just that producing luxury goods is something that takes an economy a while to do, or does China make high-status stuff that's just under my radar?

imwillofficial 6y ago
High status to whom?
bobthepanda 6y ago
You need cachet and legacy to signal exclusivity, which is best obtained with time, and even if there were any sort of big Chinese fashion houses they haven’t been around long enough to earn that kind of cred.
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  This is the most off base comment I’ve heard in a long time. Turnover in fashion is CONSTANT. Even among the high end brands. You literally picked the most capricious industry to make that argument with? China has taken all of that manufacturing prowess that the world has been pushing on to it, and turned around and made homegrown stuff that matches or surpasses the originals in terms of quality, and now, market popularity. (In China) Pair this with the rising nationalism and middle class in China, and you’ve got a huge up swing in this area. Ref: Chinese model friend (I was super ignorant of all this until recently)
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    Is there a Chinese brand that is well known/large volume outside asia? The only thing I can maybe think of is Huishan Zhang or maybe angel chen or some niche street ware stuff. but i really doubt any non-fashion person would know that and I had to google 'who was that chinese designer at barneys' couldn't name the brand off top of my head. Not saying there isn't a lot of talent and creativity in China, but there aren't any international luxury fashion houses on the level of a LVMH or Kering brand. Sure brands and trends go in and out of style; Gucci-gang growth which is now slowing or reversing lol. But for those who only care about a purse with a logo and aren't reading WWD or wearing the clothes, 'luxury' brands are pretty set in stone. Seems more opportunity now though for independent brands with Instagram and celeb culture. I love Jacquemus. the purses & shoes drive it for women I think, but again it's tiny compared to LV.
    - imwillofficial 6y ago
      We are talking about within China, in the context of my comment about China being a new hotspot. And to answer your first question, yes. (Although the traditional luxury brands still get TONS of play. The rising middle class LOVES their brand names.)
      - dillondoyle 6y ago
        what brand is known outside china? even 1/10th of the brand recognition of a top LVMH brand?
        imwillofficial 6y ago
        Read my comment again for context.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    The article is talking about big-name international brands and their sales, so I don't know why you're upset that everyone is talking about... big-name international brands and their sales. > and now, market popularity. (In China) Citation needed. > China has taken all of that manufacturing prowess that the world has been pushing on to it, and turned around and made homegrown stuff that matches or surpasses the originals in terms of quality, > Pair this with the rising nationalism and middle class in China, and you’ve got a huge up swing in this area. That's all well and good, but no one was talking about this (including your original one-sentence comment) and I'm not sure how people were supposed to just magically get this subtext. There's nothing wrong with the fact that it takes time to build an international fashion brand unless you think there's something wrong with it. CDG was started in 1969, 5 years after the Tokyo Olympics, and took until 1981 to do an international show. If you were to apply a similar trend to China, a Chinese fashion brand would reach the international stage sometime in the late 2020s, and there's nothing wrong with that.
dillondoyle 6y ago
I don't think it's so much about skill or talent. The artists are there. They can obvious make things. It seems more like just exposure and breaking out of Chinese market to get into your/our us & european culture. There are some luxury Chinese fashion brands but like I commented below I don't think any that would be known by anyone who isn't reading WWD or vogue and spending $2k on a trendy dress. I think the scale of their market in country is more than we assume though. Like I remember that Rihana giant pizza fur dress thing. The designer who made it was on some show maybe Vice I can't remember - it was pretty cool she has a huge business making extremely lavishly large furs that aren't really worn in 'the west' anymore, very much a Chinese cultural niche. https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/oct/18/guo-pei-chinese-designer-who-made-rihanna-omelette-dress https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/oct/18/guo-pei-chin...
quantumsequoia 6y ago
There is growing nationalist sentiment in China which is resulting in increased status of domestic brands among Chinese consumers and reduced status of foreign brands Does China have luxury fashion brands that are high status abroad? Not many